Sex Geeks Get Real: Consent Talks Before Getting Busy with Reid Mahalko

Ever wondered how sex educators navigate their own intimate encounters? In this candid and eye-opening episode, I sit down with renowned sex and relationship educator Reid Mihalko for an intimate conversation about the intricacies of communication, consent, and safer sex practices.

As we chat on a hotel bed (where else?), Reid shares his wealth of experience and practical wisdom on navigating hookups, casual encounters, and the complexities of intimacy in non-monogamous relationships. With his trademark humor and openness, Reid offers invaluable insights that will leave you feeling more equipped to have those important conversations, whether you're exploring polyamory or simply looking to make your casual encounters more enjoyable and consensual.

Key Insights:

• The art of navigating consent in various contexts
• Practical strategies for handling unexpected emotions in casual encounters
• Tips for managing disappointment when things don't go as planned
• The importance of clear communication in safer sex practices
• How to approach intimacy at conferences and events

ABOUT REID MIHALKO: 
As seen on NETFLIX' "Chelsea Does..." alongside Chelsea Handler, Reid Mihalko (he/him) of ReidAboutSex.com is an internationally known sex and relationship geek who threw an orgy for Oprah's OWN Network on Lisa Ling's "Our America." He has led thousands of workshops and play parties, and his work has been covered by media outlets across 7 continents. His charisma and easy to understand, pragmatic advice has helped people at virtual and in-person events. His workshops and college lectures have been attended by over 60,000 people from across the globe. 

Reid would also like you to know that, in early 2018, some very brave people came forward during #MeToo sharing harms that Reid had caused them. Reid stepped down from teaching and initiated a transformative justice-based accountability process to address his misconduct and make amends if and where possible. The formal, year-long process along with Reid’s apology and resources were shared publicly and can be found at TinyURL.com/reidaccountability. Follow @ReidAboutSex on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube.

https://elleciapaine.com/call

Chapters

• 0:00 Navigating Consent and Safer Sex
• 7:12 Navigating Complexities of Casual Sex
• 14:56 Navigating Intimacy in Podcast Recording
• 18:33 Navigating Safer Sex Conversations
• 28:42 Navigating Casual Hookups and Boundaries
• 43:44 Navigating Sexual Expectations at Swinger Parties
• 47:35 Managing Expectations and Time Limits

Transcript

Ellecia: 0:00

Hey friends, are you ready to level up your skills in navigating consent and enhancing communication around safer sex? In this episode, I sat down on a hotel bed, naturally, because where else do you have deep, intimate conversations about sex with?

Ellecia: 0:14

the incredible Reid Mahalco, a renowned sex and relationship educator with over 20 years of experience. You might know him as the founder of Cuddle Party and the mastermind behind Sex Geek Summer Camp. Reid has an amazing way of making complex topics feel accessible and real, and today we're getting into one of the most vulnerable and intimate episodes I've ever recorded. Reid shares some candid and practical advice on mastering the art of navigating consent, handling the unexpected emotions that can come up in casual encounters, and even how to manage your own disappointment when things don't quite go as planned.

Ellecia: 0:52

Reed's open and humorous and thoughtful approach is sure to leave you feeling more equipped to have those important conversations. Whether you're in a long-term relationship, exploring polyamory or just looking to make your hookups more enjoyable and consensual, there's going to be some extra juicy tidbits dropped in here for our Patreon subscribers. So if you want to hear those intimate details, head over to patreoncom. Slash, not monogamous. Now grab your headphones, get cozy and join us for one of the most honest and revealing conversations I've ever had on this show. Trust me, you don't want to miss this one.

Reid: 1:24

How do you usually start your podcast?

Ellecia: 1:25

Just like this.

Reid: 1:26

Just like this.

Ellecia: 1:27

Yeah, I say something really dumb like oh my God, look, it's recording. Cool, yeah, yeah.

Reid: 1:31

Okay, but we should probably tell them that I have read Mahalko for readaboutsexcom. Yeah, yeah, and that this whole podcast is basically us recording how we're going to hook up. Yeah At At Polytopia.

Ellecia: 1:50

Polytopia Sex.

Reid: 1:51

Positive Portland Sex Positive Portland in Portland, Oregon, Ran a weekend event and you and I being nerds and you and I being attracted to each other, we're like why don't we just record all the weird conversation we needed to have to hook up?

Ellecia: 2:11

This is like a behind the scenes. Behind the scenes.

Reid: 2:13

This is yes. This is the DVD commentary. About the DVD commentary.

Ellecia: 2:19

Oh.

Reid: 2:21

Yeah, yeah, so like so, okay.

Ellecia: 2:29

Well, since I've never been on your podcast before, I don't know how I feel, like now I'm running your podcast interview. I'm gonna stop, okay okay, reed, yeah, hey welcome to nope, we're not monogamous.

Reid: 2:35

I'm so happy you're here, I in your hotel room I'm ecstatic about this whole experience, and the nerd in me is so happy about this that we're that we're doing it this way uh-huh, yeah, yeah, yeah, me too, me too of course, if it goes horribly wrong, we also have proof of, and we can look at it like game tapes to try to figure out where, yeah, we fucked up yeah, yeah, like.

Ellecia: 2:58

Oh, that was the moment, that's the thing.

Reid: 3:01

You said, that like no, never mind, just killed the deal, yeah not gonna happen. Yeah, you just took your podcast and went home well, that was fun um, do you find yourself in hotel rooms, often with people that you have not slept with yet?

Ellecia: 3:18

hold on? That's a really good question. Not often, not often, not often, but it does happen it does happen. Yeah, usually before I sleep with them, okay, although sometimes I'm just traveling with them.

Reid: 3:31

Having sex with somebody that you don't know how you got there.

Ellecia: 3:34

I have not had that happen.

Reid: 3:35

Okay, have you Not exactly like that. But yeah, I mean, maybe we'll talk about that during this podcast.

Ellecia: 3:49

I mean, yeah, now I want to know yeah.

Reid: 3:51

Yeah, I've definitely woken up. So for folks who are just meeting me through, this recording we're also recording.

Ellecia: 3:57

Tell them who you are. Yes, hi, Hi.

Reid: 3:59

It's so lovely to be on your podcast.

Ellecia: 4:01

Thank, you so much.

Reid: 4:02

Yeah, so my name is Reid Mihalko Read. Lovely to be on your podcast. Thank you so much. I'm so happy you're here. So my name is Reed Mihalko ReadAboutSexcom is my main website. R-e-i-d AboutSexcom. I'm a sex and relationship educator. I have been doing this for 20 years now.

Reid: 4:14

I consider Cuddle Party to be what is when my career air quotes, I'm air quoting. When that started officially. The first Cuddle Party I threw in my tiny new york apartment, which is just a just a little bit bigger than this hotel room. Um, on how many people? February 28th, 29th, it was leap year 2004, okay and uh, I think we had 11, 11 people at the first cuddle party and then it was like 16 at the next one, which was two weeks later, and then by the fourth cuddle party, which was like a month, it turned into an international news story Because New Yorkers were paying money to cuddle and every news agency on the planet wanted to cover that story Because it was so like good feels, human interest and weird New Yorkers touch each other and that I consider the launch of my career.

Ellecia: 5:15

I love that.

Reid: 5:15

And that was 20 years ago. That's so good as of this recording.

Ellecia: 5:18

That's so good.

Reid: 5:19

That's amazing yeah.

Ellecia: 5:20

Yeah, yeah, and I so I talk about Sex.

Reid: 5:25

Geek Summer Camp which is how I met you. It's another project I started, uh-huh, and that turned 10 years old this year. Yeah, yeah, what do you want to tell people about?

Ellecia: 5:34

Well, I just people who listen to the podcast or who follow me know that, like every year, I talk about Sex Geek Summer Camp and this really cool thing that I go to and meet all these really cool sex educators summer camp and this really cool thing that.

Reid: 5:47

I go to and meet all these really cool sex educators and that was all I had about it.

Reid: 5:51

Yeah, and that was a business a summer camp themed business retreat for sex educators and sex positive professionals to get together to network and build friendships but also like to talk about how do we make a living and what's the best business advice for folks who can't necessarily take out a Facebook ad for our blowjob workshop or something like that.

Reid: 6:12

Yeah, they don't like that. Yeah, so, like a lot of some business advice around, marketing doesn't actually work for us, which I can make an analogy to getting laid because, as a slut, as a polyamorous queer slut, like I, don't do dating apps at all because it's not my self-expression style, sure, so with this is the business piece, sure, so with this is this is the business piece? Like with sex educators, I can't take out a Facebook ad, so I need word of mouth advertising. And then, as we've been talking about in some of the workshops here at Polytopia and thank you, sex Positive Portland for creating this event and this excuse for you and I to hook up, word of mouth advertising as a slut is kind of how I get laid.

Ellecia: 7:09

This is amazing. I love that so much. I have so many people ask me like how, how am I supposed to meet people? And I'm like you just have to go like find community and then start meeting people, like whether you're going to fuck them or not, like just like, start meeting people and then they'll introduce you to people. And then they'll introduce you to people Like that's how you, we have to like be real humans in the world and not just behind a computer.

Reid: 7:33

Yeah, and like Dirty Lola who's here this weekend, um, does a lot of dating app stuff and actually gives really great advice. I have a course that has her giving us advice on dating apps because for her that works great, like that style. So again for for people out there. Like you know, however, you're trying to meet people to either foster relationships or foster hookups, which to me is a type of relationship. Um, you might be better suited to be on apps and things like FetLife or like in person is my preference. But also in person is my preference because if you're at this weekend, you're already interested in or already polyamorous, in the same way that most of my new lovers are people that I meet at play parties, because you're either exploring a play party for the first time or you already know you like going to orgies, and because I like going to orgies so much, it's a great way for me to meet people who also like going to orgies. It's like, if you love drum circles, where do you find other people who love drum circles?

Reid: 8:48

You find them at a drum circle, or a Facebook group on drum circles, I guess.

Ellecia: 8:54

That's what I was going to say. Like, talking about communities, it doesn't have to be in person, like it could be Facebook groups or FetLife or podcasts.

Ellecia: 9:03

Yes, exactly, that's really funny because I like, in between, when I meet people in person like I I do really well on dating apps, um, or just online in general, because everything feels more clear. Um, when I hook up with people that I meet in person, often I'm like oh, I'm really surprised by this. And they're like I've been flirting with you and I'm like yeah, but I don't take that personally.

Reid: 9:27

Yeah.

Ellecia: 9:28

Like that doesn't mean anything.

Reid: 9:29

You're just being friendly, yeah, and playful yeah, and I can't tell if you're actually serious about this Like, are you flirting with intent?

Ellecia: 9:39

Right? Or are you just being nice? Or are you just, you know, flirty, yeah, yeah. Or am I so flirty that I just think everybody's flirting? Yes, and so I take none of it personally.

Reid: 9:48

Yes, so also, I think we should start laying out for your audience, like all the things we're tracking, because I think you and I are kind of different in how we hook up, maybe Because this is the first time we've ever done this. Oh yeah, we've ever done this and this is definitely the longest we've ever talked about how we hook up, because mostly I have had you in my events where it's not because you've never been to a play party of mine I have not, yeah, so you've only been to camp and you've also been to Sex Geek Conservatory, which is about public speaking and using cameras and microphones.

Ellecia: 10:21

That's how I got more comfortable doing this cameras and microphones.

Reid: 10:23

That's how I got more comfortable doing this. So you've only been to events where it was not appropriate for me to make moves on you. And if you were making moves on me, I was ignoring them, either because it's not appropriate Like it's not appropriate for me to flirt back Right, or in my over-analyzing-everything way, I wasn't sure if you were into me or not. Uh-huh, right, because what I need is somebody to come up to me and be like I am into you, we should have sex, please Me too. When it is appropriate. Uh-huh, because you can hit on me. This is, this is for the audience. I'm looking directly at the camera. You can hit on me at an event where it's not appropriate to hit on me and just say like hey, post-it note for a future time when it is appropriate.

Ellecia: 11:21

Please remember I am hitting on you that my god, rob, told me, I should do that.

Reid: 11:28

For me or for other people, for you, yeah, and I was like I don't know what I'm doing. But part of what makes me feel safer is when people can acknowledge all the different contexts and layers that are happening. Because what it helps me feel safer about is, oh, you're noticing all these things too, and you're not just like, like the way Lola talks about it, like digmatized or charismatized, um, and so when people can point out all the things and I'm like, oh, my God, you see what I'm seeing, then I feel safer, yeah, and then it still doesn't mean it's a good idea. We still need to have all the conversations, um, and we might even play, and then after the fact realized, oh, this wasn't a good idea, you know, and then ideal, ideally, we've laid the groundwork to be able to repair or clean up or acknowledge you know what we could have done better. So I think that the short end to the people who are listening is like I try as best I can not to take my casual sex casually.

Ellecia: 12:41

That is the best way to say that. That is the best way to say that.

Reid: 12:44

That is the best way to say that, yeah, yeah thank you, yeah, because it's it's inherently tricky and this is goes, whatever your gender is, because because you might have a podcast fan whose your podcast has changed their life and then they finally get to meet you in person, yeah, and they're like, uh, it's like they have a crush on you and like, how do you navigate that? That's a good idea to play or not?

Reid: 13:13

because the this, the air quotes again safest thing is that if you've listened to my podcast, we can never fuck right which, but which is also this weird, like there's no way life, this is so complicated that there's no way that you have any agency and that there's no way that we can have this be be healthy, because it is inherently so complex. But what I'm more interested in and also for me, like Right, so like the complexity, for me the healthier question is how can we navigate something so complex and how can we empower each other and how can we do our due diligence to make sure that we leave the campsite better than we found it and that that conversation yes, it is really, it can be really tricky conversation yes, it is really, it can be really tricky. And I think there's more value in leaning into the complexities and being able to learn. As community members, as individuals, like to be able to, to learn. How do we navigate this complexity?

Reid: 14:43

Because that seems like when in doubt, don't Right, like if you have to, because, again, like we were talking before we hit record, like we could have this conversation and then come to the clarity. You know what, as much as we're attracted to each other, maybe we shouldn't sleep together, or maybe we should do it next time, like always, like slower is almost always a better choice. Yeah, faster is sometimes more erotic, but when in doubt, you know what? Let's believe that the universe is abundant and this isn't about scarcity. And how about you know we do this the next time? And how about we do this the next time and then, if it's all lined up the next time? Maybe at least we were smarter to delay it.

Ellecia: 15:32

Yeah, and it kind of gets rid of that scarcity, like, oh my God, this is my only chance. I got to do the thing, even if it's not right and even if that winds up making it not a great experience.

Reid: 15:43

Well, and also, let's just acknowledge this is the last day of the conference, so the Stargate is closing. Everyone's running for their final attempts. Like last night, there was a lot of tension for people that get their freak on because it's the last night. The Stargate is closing. This is the morning. We have to check out at 11. How much time do we have Like that pressure? A lot of people aren't acknowledging that, and so you know that's an element in the calibrations of what's happening. Plus, we're recording a podcast.

Ellecia: 16:19

Plus, we're recording a podcast Never forget we're recording a podcast, yeah. So we're recording a podcast, so we're recording a podcast yes, did you forget no okay not.

Reid: 16:31

The podcast is always listening I mean, that feels true. Okay, that feels a little bit true really, okay, yeah, cool yeah, we're not cool but like, but now, like now I'm kind of sucked back into the present moment of we're two adults, yeah, sitting on a hotel room bed sitting on a hotel room bed trying to figure out like how do we do this?

Ellecia: 16:55

if we're going to do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah uh-huh, yeah, uh, especially because you were talking about um kind of the like, uh, what is it called the meta relationship? Because you're you're aware of someone, like I've heard your safer sex talks yeah I I know more about you than you know about me in that way yeah.

Reid: 17:15

Yes, maybe we should.

Ellecia: 17:16

That's fascinating.

Reid: 17:17

Should we have our safer sex conversation now for the podcast, or is that more of a like? Now this is us being marketers, or is that for Patreon subscribers?

Ellecia: 17:29

Oh my God, at patreoncom slash not monogamous.

Reid: 17:33

Ah, well played. Yes indeed, Thank you Thank you.

Ellecia: 17:36

You want to hear my safer sex talk.

Reid: 17:40

Oh yeah, because you could edit it out right I?

Ellecia: 17:42

could edit it out. What, what?

Reid: 17:46

Because this is part of how we pay our bills, right.

Ellecia: 17:48

Absolutely.

Reid: 17:49

Okay, absolutely, yeah, yeah, all right. And what is that link again Patreoncom.

Ellecia: 17:53

Patreoncom slash not monogamous.

Reid: 17:56

Excellent, yes, yeah, all right, I think that would be really cool to just pop it out, yeah.

Ellecia: 18:01

I agree.

Reid: 18:02

Now I could share my safer sex elevator speech and you could leave it in. But then, if your listeners want to hear yours, I like that. How does that work? They got to pay for mine, yeah. They got to pay it another nitty gritty, that's right, yeah, does that feel good?

Ellecia: 18:16

That's not something I've ever shared. I've shared it in the group sex course I teach getting it on in a group and I've shared it there but I've not shared it on the podcast.

Reid: 18:26

Okay, yeah, how's that feel that feel good. Yeah, should I just share mine. Yeah, I'd love to hear yours. Okay, so first off, just being a nerd. So when do you like to have your safe for sex conversation?

Ellecia: 18:39

Oh when? Wow, it really depends. If I'm meeting someone online, I will usually do it via text over multiple, you know like.

Reid: 18:48

Okay.

Ellecia: 18:48

I spread it out a bit.

Reid: 18:50

Okay, but if you meet somebody, like at a conference, or like you're staying at a hotel and you meet them at the bar and then it feels like it's on some point after we start kissing. Okay.

Ellecia: 19:01

Is, is usually when I. Then I'm like, okay, Cause, cause before then I don't actually know if you're into them or not?

Reid: 19:06

Yeah, okay, yep, um. So for me, if I was going to be like, oh, hey, I think I'd like to make out with you, like if I was feeling that kind of thing, I would already be confessing like I'm a sex educator, I'm a geek and I think I'm into you. We could kiss first, or we could have the safer sex talk first, in case it led to something else, what works better for you. But that's me kind of testing air quotes, how they respond to that. Because what I'm also trying to figure out is do you have any of your sexual literacy dialed in yet, or are you just a complete muggle, which is still fine? Yeah, but ultimately, for me to pick up somebody in the wild without any pre-context happening, like you're not at a poly event, you're not at a sex positive thing, then it just feels really dangerous.

Ellecia: 20:08

Yeah.

Reid: 20:09

And so, like I need to find out as fast as I can, it's like I'm starting a two-person book club right now, but do you know how to read? Because?

Ellecia: 20:20

And are you into the genre? Yeah, exactly.

Reid: 20:22

Yeah, exactly so. So I'm looking ultimately for other sluts, if I'm going to have a fast hookup, because we might pick up a lot of speed really quick. Yeah, and, like I have been, people have noticed like, oh, you're at this event and I saw you, you, you met that person and in five minutes you guys went up to your room and I'm like, oh, yeah, like that, but what we talked about in those five minutes checked out for both of us so we could hit the gas and go that fast. But I also, like what you're saying is like I need to kiss you first to see if we need to, if we, if you get to the next level, like part of that also is probably having to do with me identifying as a woman.

Ellecia: 21:09

Oh yeah, there's a different.

Reid: 21:11

Oh yeah, if.

Ellecia: 21:11

I, if I am talking to a man and I'm telling him like hey, let's have a safer sex conversation, there's automatically an assumption that we're going to have sex.

Reid: 21:18

Yeah, yeah, that's good, I like that. That's true. That is a very important distinction.

Ellecia: 21:24

Yeah, yeah, so I have to feel it out.

Reid: 21:27

If you came up to me and said like hey, do you want to have a safer sex conversation?

Ellecia: 21:37

My question would be like are we just having the conversation or are you hitting on me? I'm literally this stupid. Are we practicing this conversation?

Reid: 21:40

Because that's fine too. Do you just need somebody to practice on? Okay, so I'm going to do my elevator speech now, all right, okay, so for folks listening, if you go to readaboutsexcom forward slash elevator, there's a free article about my safer sex elevator speech and then you can sign up to download the actual graphic that you can print out and then walk yourself through it, which was the first time I had seen something like that.

Ellecia: 22:01

Really I was on someone's podcast I can't remember the name of the podcast, but they have crows on their cover and we were talking and they were like, oh, have you heard Reed Mihalko's elevator pitch? And I was like who, what? And they're like go check him out. And that's how I found sex. Geek summer camp.

Reid: 22:18

Oh, wow.

Ellecia: 22:19

And so that was like five years ago. Okay, cool.

Reid: 22:23

Yeah, yeah, and and and again. Like this is this is the word of mouth like how people find you, um, but then this also in in the watering holes where sluts hang out this is also how people find you. Yep, so my safer sex elevator speech. Just really quickly I like to share when I was last tested, because that's like the scary part for a lot of people. So I just lead with the scary part because you're also normalizing it for the other people. Like, oh, you can just dive right into when you were last tested. And then I like to share, you know, like things you should know about me, which are usually the things I hope will scare you away if we're not a good fit, because then, if they don't scare you away, we move to the next, which is these are my safer sex protocols and needs and agreements. And then I share something that I like and something that I don't like, because then I'm also letting other people know like you don't have to be into everything, and I'm actually it's. It's very important for me to understand that you have a sense of the things you're not into and that you can tell me, because that makes me feel safer. Because if we can't have this conversation. How am I supposed to just magically assume you'll speak up in the middle of sex, when social pressures and oxytocin and all these other things the digmatization might be happening?

Reid: 23:48

So last time I was tested was about, I think, a month ago or a month and a half ago, I can't remember, but it was recently. I get tested every three to four months anyway, because I'm super slutty. So I was tested for chlamydia, gonorrhea, syphilis, hiv. For this round. I also was tested for herpes 1 and 2 and hep A and B. I was clear for everything except herpes 1. I've tested positive for herpes 1 forever and it presents on my uh, lower or upper lip. I've only had two outbreaks that I know of, um, and they were both during the beginning of the pandemic. Uh, I'm not on antivirals or anything like that because I just don't have outbreaks that often. But if you're like I never want herpes, I'm letting you know that I have it and maybe we shouldn't even consider playing at all because I don't know if I can't guarantee that I'm not exposing it to you, because you can be exposed and get herpes even when I'm not having an outbreak.

Reid: 24:48

That being said, things about me that might scare you away or lure you to me is I'm a queer, polyamorous slut. So queer just means I'm not straight. You can ask me more. But queer people are like oh yes, you're not straight, excellent. And then I'm polyamorous, which means that I have lots of love relationships and I like falling in love with the people that I play with and sleep with, even if it's casual, it might be very intimate. And then slut for me is I'm warning you you probably are assuming that I have less sex than I actually have. So whatever you think qualifies somebody to be a slut numbers wise, put another zero on that.

Reid: 25:32

And what I tell people is like sometimes in a weekend, like I'll sleep with 23 people or something like that. That might be my record, but I'm not keeping track. And that includes fucking, oral hand sex, any kind of getting off. And really why I tell people that is? I want them to know I'm that slutty and that I don't want you to regret or be worried tomorrow if we play like oh my God, how many people did I just sleep with by association. So my safer sex protocols.

Reid: 26:05

So I'm fluid bonded with three people who have vulvas, my primary partner, allison We've been together for 18 years and I have two other lovers that I fuck for penetrative penis, vaginas, things without condoms. Everyone else that I play with we use condoms for penetration and also if they're penetrating me, and I do sleep with all genitalia men and women and non-binary folk. I have a lot of unprotected oral sex. I am fine with using dental dams and gloves and condoms for oral sex, but it's not my preference. But I'm more than happy to, but I make sure, to the best that I can, that I let people know I go down on a lot of people, because one of the things that I love is making out with genitals.

Reid: 26:53

I also love making out with people for the first time, but I love getting to know bodies before I know the people, um inhabiting them, and that's just kind of how my sexuality and eroticism works. And, uh, also, I always forget to tell people I've had a vasectomy, um, so if you get pregnant, it's not me. And then something I don't like I don't like pain. Pain is not erotic to me, and pain for me, though, is like stingy pain, like caning and spanking, thuddy, when I'm really aroused, like you can just pound on my chest or my back, and that is hot, because that doesn't occur to me as painful. So the joke is if you need to hit me to come, you're allowed to. You get one shot. Make it thuddy, not stingy. Don't hit me in the face. Don't hit me in the nuts and you're good to go.

Ellecia: 27:51

I love that awareness. Yeah, thanks yeah.

Reid: 27:55

So now, then, I'd be like and how about you, dear human, and you might edit this piece out and put it in your Patreon? You're considering it.

Ellecia: 28:06

Yeah, that's probably what's going to happen, mm-hmm.

Reid: 28:19

Well, any safer sex conversation is just the beginning of more conversation. Yeah, and talking about it, absolutely Maybe not a ton of process, like I feel safe enough right now and also like if this was just you and I meeting at a conference, I would still need to check in with you a little bit about, like cause you? You're probably meeting me because I'm teaching, and if you met me and you were already in one of my classes, it's kind of like when I go see a music show, I'm crushing on somebody in the band and if I met them after the show because of my crush, also because I'm slutty but if they were like, do you want to go fuck? I'd be like uh-huh, but I'm okay.

Reid: 29:03

Also, maybe because I'm a man, right, I'm okay with how that crush warps my I'm a little, you know, crush drunk, right, and because of the way that I'm slutty, I feel safe enough that I can navigate the situation and my body is slutty in that way and I'm not going to fall in love in a way that ruins my life in that moment. Because sometimes hookups, the challenge is like you go really deep with some people and they've never had that experience with first time sex and then they're like yeah you, they start imprinting really hard and they're like you're the one you know, or if somebody hasn't been fucked in a long time, it's just been single. Then it's like going food shopping hungry.

Ellecia: 29:51

So, like you like that's why I don't engage in BDSM with people that I don't know Well, oh, cause you start to imprint, because it creates this false sense of of intimacy.

Reid: 30:00

Right, you get really vulnerable and then you're like, oh, this is so good yeah and that, that it's like a mind fuck, yeah, yeah the other things that I've noticed too, like when you're going into there's, so if folks are interested, go to readaboutsexcom, forward slash protocols and you can download the casual sex protocol checklist, which is about like how we tumble into crushing and falling in love. But I've also noticed that, like if we hook up at a sex positive conference and then the conference ends, it's kind of like we we had this. It's like vacation sex, yeah there's a container.

Reid: 30:40

Yeah, and as long as I don't keep talking and messaging to you and then book my next flight to come back and see you or buy a ticket for you to come see me, the experience can be cleaner and less confusing, because it happened in this container and it was. It was supposed to stay in that container and then ideally be this lovely memory right, kind of like vacation sex that's the way I kind of describe it to to muggles yeah, that makes sense um, and so I'm.

Reid: 31:14

The reason I'm asking this is i'm'm curious if this event had a dungeon and you had sex, had a BDSM hookup that was really intense, and you went away and didn't chase this person online, how would that make it a healthier?

Ellecia: 31:35

Yep.

Reid: 31:36

Yeah, yep, yep, totally.

Ellecia: 31:36

Yeah, yep, yep, totally yeah. Because then if we were like, okay, let's stay in touch, then I would have this big like.

Reid: 31:43

You keep getting a joke with me.

Ellecia: 31:45

Yes, yes, like hey, hi, hey Hi.

Reid: 31:48

Tell me more.

Ellecia: 31:49

Tell me about your life, tell me what's going on in it, tell me I want to know, and then, if conversations are, are like intimate or vulnerable, then I'm like, oh my god, yeah, yeah.

Reid: 32:01

So here's another thing I'll talk about this. Wouldn't this would happen after the hookup? I would usually like, in the pillow talk I would um, or after it be a text, um, I would check in and be like, hey, how do you like to be checked in with after an experience? Oh yeah, because I can usually tell, like, if we have really good sex the first time, I will start to be like ah. I wonder if it's going to be this good the next time we hook up right Right right.

Reid: 32:37

So what I tell people is like so here I can already tell you if I'm crushing on you. So let me give you a heads up, if you're okay with it, depending on how you like to be taken and I was like you know what Before I share tell me how you like things to happen after. Yeah, because I'm also trying to figure out like, do you do this often and how do you navigate your world after an event? Right, because some people are like oh yeah, honey, we don't even have to exchange numbers, like we're good, and then I'm like now I really want your number. Right, because now you're probably more my species around slutty, but it's.

Reid: 33:17

I will want to check in with you tomorrow just to see how you're doing. Yeah, and I have a little bit of a crush already on you. So for the next two weeks you're going to get a lot of gifs and memes and then it will taper off dramatically and you will feel like I forgot about you. Yeah, it's not that I forgot, but like my crush energy will just do this. So I'm kind of like I want to check in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that works great when I text it, because I've had people over the years be like you know what. I reread that text so many times because I've never had somebody tell me what to expect after a hookup like we had. And, motherfucker, if in two or three weeks it didn't happen exactly like you told me, so I didn't freak out about it.

Ellecia: 34:18

Yes.

Reid: 34:19

And so I'm offering this to the people, listening about, like how, how do you like to walk through the world after and finding out what's a good fit for people and giving them like a little bit of a heads up So's not as jarring?

Ellecia: 34:36

yeah, because you know I mean just having that self-awareness. Most people don't have that awareness of what, what they do and how they do that, or they think they're supposed to engage in a certain way and then they feel like guilty and weird and then they kind of disappear, like ghosting right, like they just kind of disappear and don't say anything. Yeah, and I have a part of Danny. When we like after our first date, he was like hey, I love being friends with you. Um, if we don't talk for months, I'm totally okay with that. And like nothing unless we've had like a fight and something bad happened like everything is exactly the same as the last time I talked to you, Like I, you're still my friend, I still care about you. Nothing has changed. And over the last five years I have I have replayed that conversation in my head anytime Like we just haven't. You know we're busy and we don't talk and I'm like it's okay, Like we, I wasn't abandoned, this is just like it's. Everything is fine. That is such a good thing to know.

Reid: 35:30

And so how do you like to to?

Ellecia: 35:34

I think I'm very similar to you actually, because I do Like I get like a big crush and I'm like, hey, how's it going? What's going on in your life? Gifts and memes and then like life gets busy and I have to go like take care of my kids and school's starting and I got shit going on.

Reid: 35:49

Yeah, yeah.

Ellecia: 35:51

It tapers.

Reid: 35:51

Another thing thank you for that that that makes me feel safer, like in certain ways. Um, so the other thing I just want to point out, uh, that I don't think we have talked about yet, and now the thought left me, so I have to think about what it was again. You were talking about the thing and now, god damn, it was going to be really useful for some people. The oh, do you like pick up? Play is what some people call it Like I'm, I'm at a play party and are there people here who just like hooking up with people they're just meeting, right? Um, it feels like, even if it's not super common to you, you feel very comfortable in this. Like, come back to my hotel room, right.

Reid: 36:37

But I also just want to acknowledge to people, even though we're in a container of a conference, me inviting somebody I've just met back to my hotel room and closing the door is inherently trickier, right.

Reid: 36:57

So I would usually, if somebody wanted to pick me up and bring me, you know, to go fuck, I would either be in a space if there was a space for it, or if they invited me back to their room.

Reid: 37:10

That's a little bit different than I invite them to my room, right, invite them to my room, right, um, and in some cases, unless, unless they're another sex educator or person who really has their black belt in this and I can be like, oh, like you've done this before, this is your jam.

Reid: 37:31

Most of my hookups like with you and danny, like if, if, if you two had at any point weekend said do you want to come back to our room and have a threesome, I would have been like, do it, right, but it would have felt weird for me to be like, hey, do you two want to have a threesome with me? Like I need other people to kind of take the lead. So the reason I'm saying this is, like, depending on how you have your sex, because not all poly people are into threesomes, right, right, or just hotel hookups Like I'm also paying attention to what feels, who's taking the lead, yeah, and who's kind of who has the initiative? Yeah, because it's really easy for me to make suggestions, but I'm also letting other people take the lead as an assessment tool.

Ellecia: 38:29

Yeah.

Reid: 38:34

Which I run into problems with with some of my friends who are lovers now, but they're like super shy and they're like I'm so glad you told me to hit on you, Because in those conversations I'm like so how do you identify? Like, oh, I'm a very shy, awkward, introvert and I'm like, okay, just so you know, unless you hit on me, I'm not going to make the first move. So that's, this is your heads up. And then they're like, ah, it's going to be so hard for me. And I'm like, I'm like, yeah, but I need that to feel safe. Like this is me cheating by telling you like I'm taking the initiative, to tell you you need to take the initiative, Cause even that can get a little fuzzy, you know if I'm the teacher and they've been a fan of mine for so long and it's weird, but I just don't know how, because, because I have so many friends who are introverts and shy, I don't know how to fix that for them yeah so I just like tell people, like, like this is I'm telling everybody on a podcast.

Reid: 39:33

If you're shy and introverted and you meet me, just say, hey, I listened to you on a podcast and you told me that you let shy and introverted people know I'm supposed to hit on you. So I am telling you right now I'm hitting on you and then shy and introverted people just run away and I would be like I got it.

Ellecia: 39:55

Noted.

Reid: 39:56

Noted. Thank you, because I've also had people, and maybe you will someday have this experience. I've had people like right after I teach something, come up to me after and they're like hey, I want to sleep with you. I know that this is a little bit tricky because it's right after you taught, but I've watched all of your YouTube videos and I'm going to walk you through, if you have five minutes, all of your concerns with this situation as it stands right now.

Reid: 40:24

And I'm like in my head I'm like, oh, my God, who is this magical being? And then I had somebody pull that off on a thing and they walked me through everything, all my concerns, and I'm like who, how did you? Who told you to do this? And they're like oh, it's right there. And you're fucking. If you watch all of your videos in between the lines, it's right there, yeah. And then I was like are you a star fucker? And they're like, yeah, and I'm like I'm a star fucker too. And then we bonded as star fuckers and then at the end they're like can we go fuck now?

Reid: 40:58

and I'm like okay, yeah, yeah um, but I I didn't know how nervous I was about that kind of you know um glamour of like teacher uh-huh charisma thing, um.

Reid: 41:16

But as for me, like I love fucking my heroes and I've been very lucky to get to fuck my heroes, but like that piece for me, like being noticing like, oh, I'm a star fucker, and how do you do that in a clean way? But how do you make your stars feel comfortable that you're a star fucker and how do you do that in a clean way, but how do you make your, your stars feel comfortable?

Ellecia: 41:40

that you're a star fucker.

Reid: 41:41

Yeah, yeah. So I don't know if that's useful to anybody, but I felt like I wanted to share that with you I, I love it okay.

Ellecia: 41:45

I love it cool. Yeah, it might. It might come in handy someday. I've had people stop me and go hey, you're that podcast lady and I'm like yes, I am a person on a podcast now.

Reid: 41:59

Is that mostly women that do that or men that do that? It has been mostly women it has been mostly women and are you finding that they're wanting to sleep with you, or they just want to thank you and tell you?

Ellecia: 42:12

I think they have been feeling out if I was open to sleeping with them in a really indirect way.

Reid: 42:21

So here I will do this again for you as a friend. If people were to subscribe to your Patreon, maybe this next part that you're going to talk to me about how you like to be hit on by your fans would be useful for them, but they would have to subscribe to your Patreon.

Ellecia: 42:37

They really would at patreoncom slash not monogamous.

Reid: 42:40

There you go and also just saying for everyone, Just because you hit on a slut and this is the hard part, Please don't take it personally. If we are still a no, Because we literally do not sleep with everyone, we're allowed to say no as well. But I have run into people who get confused. They're like, hey, I did all the things, why won't you sleep with me? Because they think like if Reed won't sleep with me, I must really be broken and I'm like, oh shit, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not how that works. Like I literally do not sleep with everyone. So please don't take it personally.

Reid: 43:24

And the reason I'm injecting this right now into this is I want everyone to kind of take away from this. Even if we tell you how we like to be hit on, it doesn't guarantee that we're still going to be a yes. And please, like to be hit on, it doesn't guarantee that we're still going to be a yes and please, like you know, may you all have such abundance and feel so comfortable in your own skin. That part of your conversations is how to let people down gracefully because they think you're so slutty that this is a sure thing. Yeah, and that is a little tricky, and also you as a woman walking through society. It's very different. It is yeah.

Ellecia: 44:02

It is yeah, yeah, Especially in places where people are expecting to have sex. The events play parties, swinger parties. I go to hotel takeovers and all of the swinger events I go to, like hotel takeovers and I I would. I think all of the swinger events I go to. I pretty much never have sex with them, Almost never, Just because it's like so expected that like I'll make out with a few people make out.

Reid: 44:31

Actually, Actually just face making out.

Ellecia: 44:35

Yeah, actually, yeah. And then I'm like, really, what I figured out, oh out, yeah, actually, yeah. And then I'm like really, uh, what I figured out, oh God, okay. So a couple of years ago I was like none of the sex I'm having is like satisfying because, like I was, it was just about you know, like, yeah, you're attractive and we'll, we'll do the thing. And I was like, nah, it's fine. And I was like, what if? What if I could go to these events, cause I teach it like hotel takeovers, right. And I was like what if I can go to these events and just like make dicks hard and then walk away.

Ellecia: 45:03

And so I started telling people, men in particular. I'd be like, hey, like we can, we can like kiss and stuff, and I really want to make your dick hard and touch it, but like we're not fucking, it's not gonna happen. And that was the most empowering thing ever to be like I can go to these like events where everyone is expected to be fucking and not fuck and do the thing that I like. I was like I like penises a lot, I like touching them, I like seeing what they do, I like seeing all the different ways they look, and I was like. But like most of these people, I don't actually want to fuck like, I don't want to have conversation with them, I don't want to do most of the things it's like. So what if I could just walk down the hallway of this party and sprinkle some fairy dust on some dicks and then go back to my room and masturbate?

Reid: 45:50

You'll have like a fluffer booth.

Ellecia: 45:52

Yes, I love it. It's so fun and it made like, like sex parties and swinger events so much more fun for me and like low pressure and it didn't matter that I was kind of hung over and worn out and like fucking exhausted you just he's like, he's like yeah yeah, okay next I mean, yeah, I feel like Tinkerbell, like if I had glitter. I'm just like go put that in someone. Go put that in someone that sounds great.

Reid: 46:27

I want to.

Ellecia: 46:27

I want to stop by the fluffer booth yeah, yeah, it like it took a lot of pressure off, and I teach that to a lot, of, a lot of people I work with because I'm like you actually don't have to have sex with people, you can go and do whatever it is that makes you happy and gets you excited and the part that you like. You only have to go as far as the part that you like.

Reid: 46:49

Nice. That's wonderful, I love it Just team fluff, team fluffer.

Ellecia: 46:55

Good job. I don't know why I went off on that tangent.

Reid: 46:58

It's a great tangent. I'm so distracted.

Ellecia: 47:00

No, is there anything I haven't asked you that you want the listeners to know?

Reid: 47:09

Well, business-wise, go to readaboutsexcom. Follow me at readaboutsexcom or readaboutsex on Instagram and Facebook and all the things. Please feel free to reach out to me in my DMs or my email is read R-E-I-D at readaboutsexcom and just let me know how is this experience for you? Because I don't think I've ever done a podcast quite this way.

Ellecia: 47:34

I certainly haven't.

Reid: 47:35

And I am kind of like, as a nerd, I'm interested how it lands, because the weird part of it is some people might be listening and be like well, this is just a fucking advertisement for fucking read. But as a nerd, but also.

Reid: 47:53

I'm like well, this is how I do it when I'm meeting people. Here are all the tricky parts I'm trying to track right that you're a podcaster, that you're a sex educator, that we're diffusing some of the tension by being nerds. All of this is checking out also because we've known each other a while. But, like now, I feel like I'm getting to know you as a slut and and then just hanging out and I'm also even if I was disappointed that we didn't hook up this time together is important to me and it's I'm. I can handle my disappointment if, if we find out, it's 11 and we have to check out Like, so all these things are like there for me that I'm present to, but this is also like just how I walk through the world as somebody Hang on. Is that my alarm? It's 1030. It's 1030. This was my.

Reid: 48:56

If you are fucking right now, you need to make sure you have a half an hour left before you need to check out, right, um? So again, google calendar, use your timers and alarms folks. Uh, stay on schedule, because you have to get people back, even if they're digmatized back into the world, um, and and they have to make their back, even if they're digmatized back into the world and they have to make their plane flights and all the things. Leave the campsite better than your founder. Wow. Should we end there? Is that a good place to end? I don't know.

Ellecia: 49:30

That's an excellent place to end. Yes, absolutely. Let me know your takeaways from this.

Reid: 49:37

Listeners, let me know Okay, 100% yeah.