Boundaries, Bedrooms, and Beyond, Navigating Non Monogamous Dating with Shannon Whaley

Curious about what it really takes to date in the non-monogamous world? In this episode, I’m joined by Shannon Whaley, an anti-hustle business coach and newly-out polyamorous explorer, as we dive into the challenges and breakthroughs of non-monogamous dating. Together, we break down the nuances of setting clear boundaries, asking the tough but essential questions, and finding self-worth after surviving toxic relationships.

Shannon opens up about her journey and how embracing both non-monogamy and BDSM practices has transformed her approach to building healthy, authentic connections. Whether you’re navigating jealousy, learning to communicate needs, or just starting to explore ethical non-monogamy, Shannon’s insights offer a fresh and empowering take on healing, intimacy, and self-discovery.

Here's what you'll discover in this episode:

• How to set and maintain boundaries in non-monogamous relationships
• The importance of direct communication and asking tough questions
• Navigating the complexities of dating while living abroad
• The role of BDSM checklists in fostering trust and clear boundaries
• Practical tools for reclaiming your power and creating meaningful connections

About Shannon Whaley:

Shannon is an anti-hustle business coach living in Italy with her two bilingual cats. She's been coaching since 2015, helping service providers build sustainable online businesses. Now, she's navigating her own journey in polyamory and non-monogamy, sharing her insights and challenges along the way. www.shannonwhaley.com

Whether you're new to non-monogamous dating or looking to refine your approach, this episode offers a refreshingly honest look at the realities of exploring relationships beyond traditional boundaries. Join us for a conversation that might just change the way you think about connection, communication, and personal growth in the world of ethical non-monogamy.

"Healing and growth are not only possible, they're powerful. Reclaiming your self-worth after toxic experiences is within reach."

Don't forget to rate and review the podcast if you enjoy these conversations. It helps us reach more people and keeps the dialogue open – which is super important in the world of non-monogamous relationships!

00:00:00 Introducing Non-Monogamous Dating and Healing After Toxic Relationships

00:02:27 Shannon's Journey into Non-Monogamy and Self-Discovery

00:06:07 Setting Boundaries and Communicating Effectively

00:23:54Navigating Non-Monogamous Dating and Setting Boundaries

00:28:00 Na

https://elleciapaine.com/call

Chapters

• 0:00 Non-Monogamous Dating Healing and Growth
• 16:01 Discovering Boundaries and Values in Dating
• 28:20 Navigating Non-Monogamous Relationship Dynamics
• 35:19 Navigating Non-Monogamous Dating Challenges
• 44:32 Non-Monogamous Relationship Dynamics and Boundaries

Transcript

Ellecia: 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Nope, we're Not Monogamous. I'm your relationship coach, E, and today we're diving into the world of non-monogamous dating not just the dreamy romantic side of it, but the real stuff like setting standards and asking tough questions and navigating your own healing after toxic relationships. We've all heard the myths you'll never fully heal or you'll always carry those scars. But what if I told you those are just that myths. Healing and growth are not only possible, they're powerful, and reclaiming your self-worth after toxic experiences is completely within reach. Healing and growth are not only possible, they're powerful. Reclaiming your self-worth after toxic experiences is within reach, and in today's episode, we're going to talk about how you can rebuild and empower yourself, especially within the context of non-monogamous dating. So today I'm joined by my friend, shannon Whaley, an anti-hustle business coach who lives by the beach in Italy with her two bilingual cats, kevin and Nicolo. I think I said it right. Shannon's been coaching since 2015, helping coaches and service providers build sustainable online businesses without burning out, and we've worked together in various ways. She's been my business coach and I'm currently supporting her as she navigates her poly, non-monogamy journey after coming out two years ago. And so in this episode.

Ellecia: 1:27

Today, shannon's going to open up about the realities of non-monogamous dating and the role of a BDSM checklist in setting clear boundaries and fostering trust. So we're going to talk about how practical tools can help you reclaim your power and create meaningful and healthy connections. So if you're ready for an honest conversation about healing and growth and the unexpected ways BDSM can support your journey, stay tuned. This is an episode you don't want to miss. Please, please, please, don't forget to rate and review the podcast. If you love these conversations. It really helps us reach more people and keeps the dialogue open Super important. I will love you forever. Enjoy. I want to welcome you to Nope, we're Not Monogamous the podcast where we talk about not monogamy. Actually, we talk about monogamy quite a bit too, just not the way you would expect. Shannon, I'm so happy you're here, me too.

Shannon: 2:28

I've wanted to be on this podcast for a long time, so I guess I should have just asked earlier.

Ellecia: 2:33

I know, I was like it never even crossed my mind. I'm like, oh, you should come on. Really, I thought you'd never ask. Yeah, I'm very excited. I do that all the time. All the time People will like I've had a couple of times where I've hooked up with people and I'm like wow, I had no idea you were into me. And they're like I've been flirting with you for months. I'm like I don't take it personally.

Shannon: 3:02

I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know what they're into me, until we're making out and I'm like, oh great, oh, this is a thing.

Ellecia: 3:18

Right, or unless they're like I'm really attracted to you.

Shannon: 3:20

Oh okay, Uh-huh, I'm like I just figure, that's just your personality, this thing where you're flirting with me, I don't.

Ellecia: 3:26

I don't do subtle, I just need you to just uh, just tell me. Ambiguity makes me super anxious, yes, and then awkward, uh-huh, like uh-huh, yeah. But I mean, come on, we're cute when we're awkward. I mean that might be part of the charm 100. If you're not into this awkward, then this is it. If you can't handle the awkward.

Shannon: 3:49

You don't get all the other stuff. You don't deserve me at my performance.

Ellecia: 3:53

Exactly Okay. So here's what I want to know. Well, here's what I already know, but I would like you to share, if you want, for the people listening, since we have a topic of non-monogamy. I'm curious what non-monogamy means for you or looks like for you?

Shannon: 4:20

I'm still figuring that out myself, aren't we? Um, I'm still figuring that out myself. So, um, yeah, I separated from my husband two years ago and was like I am never doing this again, I'm never having a monogamous relationship again. And I had tried to be non-monogamous back in 2013 and I was dating multiple people and then got like roped into a monogamous relationship and I was like, fine, and then another one, and so now I am figuring out what that means and like there's. So I mean, I came out of the closet as bi when I was 17 and didn't know about different like relationship anarchy, and I didn't know, like I didn't know any of these things. I just like didn't have access and I wasn't in the community and it was like lesbian, bi, gay, like there weren't, like all of these other, like demisexual and da da, da da.

Ellecia: 5:26

We're learning so much. Oh my goodness.

Shannon: 5:29

I'm a. I'm a queer elder who has so much to learn.

Shannon: 5:36

Right, Right so so I don't know, like I'm learning about all of these terms and am I into BDSM or am I more into kink? What does that look like? What does poly look like versus ENM or relationship anarchy? I don't know. Two years still and it's not any clearer. I feel like it's eventually hopefully going to get there. I have an idea of what I want it to look like and then the more that I date and things unravel or end right Like, it just gives me more clarity of like, don't want that, Definitely want this, want more of this. So I'm just like putting one foot in front of the other at this point.

Ellecia: 6:33

Yeah, yeah, I excuse me. I love that I get to catch you at this stage because so many of the people I talk to are, you know, like we're are in a relationship where they were monogamous and then opened up, or we're non-monogamous but are in, like, committed while meeting people and and the I think the challenge and the fun thing that I'm loving watching you do is go okay, I have a really solid idea of what I want, and so the people I date are gonna have to meet that.

Shannon: 7:22

Yes, yes, and like in this process too, is just like, so there's like this whole coming out of you know and and also, like you know, I can't. I identified as bi and then I was like, well, that doesn't feel like inclusive of you know who I'm attracted to, or the you know. If it was like a binary, non-binary person, I'm like, well, I guess I'm not bi anymore. Like, so now there's new terms and right. So like I'm coming out as like queer Great. I'm coming out as non-monogamous Great. And so, yeah, like this learning curve is fucking bananas.

Shannon: 8:02

But also like healing from a toxic marriage, and not just like one, but like multiple marriages and relationships, right, when I was not setting or holding boundaries, like I was self-abandoning, I didn't have any fucking standards, like I didn't. Um, of course I had some standards, but like the things that are actually important to me that I like drew a line on. Now, what like weren't I did. I was like, oh, whatever they like me, I like them enough. Like, sure, Like let's do this. And then, all of a sudden, I'm in a relationship for four years. I'm like what the fuck?

Ellecia: 8:40

All of a sudden, my my heart is invested in this thing. That actually wasn't right for me, yeah.

Shannon: 8:46

Like that sunk cost that I'm like, well, maybe we can figure it out Right, and it's just like over and over and over again. So I'm really committed to you know, my healing process and working through attachment stuff and then also layering on hold on there's a cat trying to get through, um, also layering. Of course there is layering on hold on there's a cat trying to get through, also layering. Of course there is Layering on the non-monogamy piece, which, uh-huh, it's tired. It's a whole bunch.

Shannon: 9:22

I was going to say like it's fun, like there's moments where it's fun and like it's interesting, but what I will say is like my number one value is freedom and it always has been, and so the fact that I was trying to be in monogamous relationships for my entire life. It's like what the fuck like? What the fuck Like? I wish that when I was, you know, in 2013, I wish that I would have had this podcast right, like they're just like the resources didn't really exist back then. It was like part of the kink community that like wasn't. It was those people.

Ellecia: 10:05

Right, 2013,. That's when I got divorced and was like I'm not going to be monogamous again and I had no, no, didn't know anybody who wasn't monogamous, and I read the ethical slut there was the ethical slut and there was more than two. Those were like the two main resources and there was the um uh poly weekly podcast was also. I discovered that a little bit after that, I think. Um, but that that was it.

Shannon: 10:30

Yeah, really I did. I was on the apps before. So I was living in Seattle and then I was moving to the Cayman Islands, so I was dating just freely, like I wasn't dating with the intention of relationship. And there was one guy who was in a poly relationship or I think, more E&M from understanding but he had said he had recommended sex at dawn and then I just never I still haven't read it but that was what he had recommended. That's funny.

Shannon: 11:00

But I saw a lot of like what I didn't want, right, and so like I had heard about all the horror stories of oh, we opened a relationship up and then it blew our relationship up. So all I heard was that it doesn't work. Yeah, why the fuck would I try something that everyone says doesn't work? I mean, it sounds fun in theory, but then it's like I pick shitty people. What am I going to be in relationships with multiple shitty people, multiple shitty people? That sounds exhausting. So I understand why I wasn't so maybe grateful that that I didn't have cause I'm like such a different person. I've healed so much, like I've worked with you and my therapist right and like I've read and I've taken these two years to myself to just like really understand. Yeah, like time to have some boundary, like hard boundaries. Learn how to fucking communicate, learn how to ask hard questions, stop swallowing the the words and just like say the things and so you know it. It all happens in due time.

Shannon: 12:19

Um but trying to put what I don't know, the saying put a round peg in a square hole. Is that how you say?

Ellecia: 12:28

it Square peg in a round hole Cause the corners. Yeah, gotcha they, they bump into the.

Shannon: 12:34

Totally, Um, forever, Like when I was married to my ex-wife, there was this feeling of like cutting off half of myself Cause like I wasn't a lesbian, even though I identified as a lesbian. Like my whole coming out story was quite traumatizing and I was told I had to pick one. For my parents to accept me, we accept you, pick a side, Right, we don't believe in bi. So, and I was like I'm dating a woman, I guess I'm a lesbian, but I wasn't and I knew that I wasn't and so yeah, so when I married her, like I was like I can never, you know again like she was.

Ellecia: 13:17

She's a lesbian, lesbian.

Shannon: 13:18

She was not a bi, like she's a lesbian and uh, I was like never that is a long time she was like me in and I was like never.

Ellecia: 13:24

That is a long time. She's like ew Totally. Why would you want that?

Shannon: 13:32

Right, and so like I had to hide that part of myself, even though she knew that I had identified as bi, right and so yeah, and then anytime I was in like a relationship, a monogamous relationship, it just felt like with a man or a woman like I was like, is this how it's going to be forever? Like I have to pick one? Like that doesn't sound. Why am I bi if I have to pick?

Ellecia: 13:52

It's dumb. It's like when people ask you things like what's your favorite food or what's your favorite movie and I'm like I can't. I am queer and polyamorous.

Shannon: 14:00

I can't pick a favorite and I'm like what season, what country? Like I, have so many questions Are we dining?

Ellecia: 14:11

in or taking it out to go Right.

Shannon: 14:16

Do I have to make it or can I go get it? Because that's going to fully change the equation. So, yeah, same, same. Where it's's like favorites, like we're adults, do we have favorites? I don't know. Can't we just do whatever the fuck we want?

Ellecia: 14:33

Yeah, you want to know what's funny. Someone asked me, someone looked at me the other day and they were like oh, your favorite color is purple, cause I have purple hair and I was wearing my purple boots and I have a purple house. And they're like oh, your favorite color is purple. And I was like, actually, no, it's not, it's actually aqua, but I just don't want to burn myself out on it, so smart.

Shannon: 14:52

This all happened, as you can see, like there's like purple, literally everything. It's because my brand colors were purple. Before my brand colors were red and black and white. So I wore a lot of red and I had red lipstick and I did all this. And then I rebranded and so we did these softer colors and I was like, yeah, sure, and I didn't want to have like bright red hair. So I was like, sure, we'll do lilac hair smoky, so I need all of this shit for a branding shoot. And I was like, guess we're purpleing it up over here.

Ellecia: 15:23

Yes, guess we're purpleing it up over here.

Shannon: 15:24

Yes, I love that so much, but it's not my favorite color like, yeah, I think black's probably my favorite color, but you can't have a house full of black I mean you just need a lot of light then, yeahler, okay.

Ellecia: 15:42

Okay, you were talking about learning boundaries. Yeah, learning boundaries and talking about boundaries. How's that going?

Shannon: 15:55

It's a process. I mean I really so like. What I've had to do over these last years was like, really just like deconstruct, like how the fuck did I get here again Right, like when I left my ex? Yes, those moments where you're just like both hands on the sink in the kitchen, just like crying of like how the fuck did I get here again? I was 40, what? 42, I think, and yeah, I'm like. Here we go again. So it's taken.

Shannon: 16:41

It catapulted me into this like journey of like, if I'm going to and like I mean this is what I had like asked my husband to do, like we're going to keep triggering each other and so we can do this together and learn and grow, or we can break up and then do it with somebody else, and so that's what he chose to do, and I was like I'm not fucking doing this again, like I have to do this work on my own. So I have to figure out my attachment shit. I have to figure out like, what do I like, what do I not like? What am I? What will I never put up with again? Like and a lot of it too was like, not just like what were the red flags that I missed, and a lot of it, too, was like, not just like, what were the red flags that I missed, what were the red flags that I glaringly fucking saw? And like, tied them and made a little scarf with them.

Shannon: 17:35

I can wear this. That's a cute accessory. This is cute. It used to be my brand colors. This goes with whatever.

Ellecia: 17:41

It's on brand.

Shannon: 17:50

That was more of what it was like, not what I missed, but there were just, like you know, there were definitely nuances of like, oh, that, like don't do that again. Um, but it was like, what did I when? When did I self-abandon? When did I not speak up when, um, like, what boundaries did I lightly try to enforce? Um, right, like yeah, and also like another big thing too, and like what I realized was like fitness is just a huge part of my life.

Shannon: 18:21

I have been lifting weights and in the gym since I could drive. That's one of the reasons why I got a job was that I could lift weights and pay for my gym membership and so, but that was never like a value of mine when dating, and so I never dated anybody who lifted weights, counted macros, did anything like that. And because I was told that other things were more important and this goes for like lots of things. So like, oh, that's not, it's just really important of like how they treat you, or it's just more important of like if they have a good job, if they could provide for you, right, and so these things, that. And like I thought, well, yeah, I mean, it's kind of dumb. Like we don't have to have the same hobbies, we don't have to both work out, but like it is such a big part of my life and if I would have upheld that value and that boundary and been like I don't date people who don't take care of their bodies, like I don't date people who don't take care of their bodies, like I don't date people who don't have sporty habits or sporty activities, or I don't date people who just like, sit on the couch on the weekends Like I want to be dating, if I would have upheld that one value, I would not have dated any of the people that I dated since I was fucking 14 years old.

Shannon: 19:48

Yep, none of them. Maybe there's one we would go to the gym together, one From 14 to 42. Uh-huh, and that was like. That was a big like, shake shoulders Like. And that's not even like a big, like a. I mean, that's not, that's not like a core like thing. Yeah, do you know what I'm saying?

Ellecia: 20:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like it's just. It just speaks to compatibility, right, if I'm, if you're spending two hours a day at the gym and, um, and your partner wants you to go do something else that pulls you away from that, then you're not taking care of yourself in the way that feels good for you because, like you want to spend time together and also you know like it starts to, it starts to detract in little ways until, all of a sudden, your life is very different. Yeah.

Shannon: 20:46

I mean in two hours is conservative. I'm there for a decent amount of time, right. But like, if you don't lift weights, like the way that I do, like you're not going to understand why it takes me that long, right. And so, like you know, I dated somebody who thought I was cheating on him because I was at the gym for three hours and I was like, if you fucking worked out, you'd know what I was doing, right, like you would know, right, and and so then it's like, well, maybe, maybe I shouldn't work out so much, or like, maybe I should like cut my workout in half Cause I don't want him to like not trust me, right. And so this is like, this is me not having boundaries. This was me like not setting, like not speaking up and being, like not having direct conversations of being like what the fuck, dude, you think I'm cheating? Like we need to have a conversation about this.

Ellecia: 21:45

Yeah, so I was just finding myself in that, but I was like I was, I was, I was repeating.

Shannon: 21:52

I have repeated the same relationship. It's just like more tattoos every time just like.

Ellecia: 22:09

More tattoos every time Same person, more tattoos, that just comes with age.

Shannon: 22:20

That's amazing. So it's just like learning like. Like what. What do I value? What do I want this to look like? And then not just like what boundaries and values do I have, but like I need to actually be able to articulate them. And then what do I do when that boundary is crossed? What do I do when they don't meet that value or that requirement of mine? Like then what?

Ellecia: 22:42

Because that's where it was like, well, I think a lot of people I think a lot of people like think that their boundaries are supposed to be negotiable.

Shannon: 22:57

I mean, I was raised. Yeah, yeah.

Ellecia: 23:01

I didn't get to have boundaries.

Shannon: 23:03

When I was a kid Right, right I wasn't. I grew up in a toxic home. I was not allowed to have like my autonomy and boundaries, like I was not allowed to have that, yep.

Ellecia: 23:17

So, obviously this is where I ended up. Clearly, love means.

Shannon: 23:23

I just do whatever you want, yeah.

Ellecia: 23:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh-huh. I feel like that's super relatable for probably a lot of people listening yeah.

Shannon: 23:35

Yeah.

Ellecia: 23:36

Yeah, yeah, um, I, I, I wonder, as you're like figuring all of this out, how is that? How's dating going?

Shannon: 23:57

It's going. So when I left my I separated from my husband, like I was not like in the at all space to date, so I didn't date. For, interestingly enough, like I met somebody on the anniversary that I had left my ex and I was like it's a sign. I just need people to come and slap me when I say shit like that. Like it was not a sign, it was just a coincidence. There's no signs, anyway. So it was a year, so it was a full year before I and I was like and I met him on the apps, I met him on field and I was like well, like, well, we'll just see what happens. Right, um had no, no, and this is when I hired you Cause I was like I should have hired you before I met him, but I didn't know what was going to transpire. But I definitely hired you after the, the aftermath, because I was like what the fuck?

Ellecia: 24:56

what the fuck so like.

Shannon: 24:58

I had no idea. Like apparently, like people don't have. I mean, how do I say it Apparently? I've been quite kinky for some time and I just had no idea.

Ellecia: 25:15

I was like I just thought that's how people had sex, You're so cute and so like it's been.

Shannon: 25:21

Like I've learned through this process that like, oh, you're supposed to ask permission to do that or you're supposed to right. Like peeing on somebody in the shower. Like I did something on Facebook and I was like when you're in the shower, like you pee on their leg and they're like, oh, that needs to be discussed. Like that's like a. I was like it does. I think it's just funny. Just stare them in the eyes and pee on their leg and they're like, oh, that needs to be discussed. Like that's like a. I was like it does. I think it's just funny. Just stare them in the eyes and pee on their leg.

Shannon: 25:50

It was very enlightening of like there's rules, apparently for kink, Didn't know. Rules apparently for kink, didn't know. So I was like thrust into the kink and bdsm community and was like a whole new world. Like the curtains opened and I was like what have I been missing? Like this whole time I was so, so upset that this whole time yes, you were, I know, and so was introduced to, yeah, like dom, sub dynamics and that sort of thing and didn't know, like, didn't realize like the safety, like emotional, mental, physical safety that was involved, Didn't realize you know about, like aftercare and consent and limits and like getting all of this information ahead of time, which is so fun, it's so hot to have those conversations, it's like like you build up to it, Right, and so, yeah, I didn't know about, yeah, totally totally yeah, yeah, yeah, Just like a whole different way of of doing this opened up.

Shannon: 27:16

And so of doing this opened up, and so, yeah, I had a bit of a bad experience with um, a self-proclaimed soft Dom, Um, very lucky that I was not like hurt or injured, I was just. You know, I had some sub drop issues I needed to deal with, which is when I came to you of under like understanding like that, the dynamic and the um, like am I going crazy, Like what is happening here, and just like you were explaining like this is totally normal and you know, here's book, here are books, here's information, and so, like, the more I read, I was like man, I really could have gotten myself into trouble.

Ellecia: 28:01

Yeah, yeah, okay. So for everyone that's listening, if you have I have not experienced negotiating your dynamics If you're just like I don't know, fucking someone who's like, and now they're just going to start choking you, or now they're just going to tell you you have to do what they want, like that's not how it's supposed to go. You're you're supposed to actually negotiate and talk about what you're okay with and what you're not okay with. And you know, do you need a safe word or will you know is like a red light, green light system going to work. Also, your emotions are going to get tied up, even if this is just a sexy thing. Your brain is going to dump all of the hormones that it dumps when you're falling in love, because that's just how brains and bodies work. And so you're going to have all the feels, even if they're like, even if it's being created because of this structure, because of this play, and so like I feel like people. Just they don't know that, and even just knowing that is like I'm still learning that lesson.

Shannon: 29:02

It takes me a little bit. I'm a slow learner. Oh, we all are. We all are. Yeah, I don't know, maybe third time's the charm, I'll get it next time. But I took another break, like I had like a nine month break, and I'm hiring you again. So that didn't end well.

Ellecia: 29:28

Or it went really well, it was perfect, learn all the things Right.

Shannon: 29:33

So, like each one is like you know, this is a growth experience. Like I've learned so much about myself, and like you know, this is a growth experience. Like I've learned so much about myself and like this is what I want. So like I feel like I am getting closer to what you know, to understanding what I want. Like I don't want just a one night stand, or like I want intimacy. Like I want you know, when I learned about like nesting partners, I was like that sounds fucking awful. I want to live by myself. Like I don't come over, hang out, like we'll have dinner and then leave, cause I love my space, right? Um, so I've under.

Shannon: 30:10

Now I have like more of a vocabulary of like solo, poly and relationship anarchy and like let's design this relationship, which is going to require such a high level of emotional awareness and maturity, but also just like honesty and full transparency and all of these things that I have not been able to access in my previous relationships. Like I've just gone with the flow. I am not a go with the flow person. Like when I go with the flow, it's like there's so much chaos inside, totally, totally, and I've really had to work with that and that's one thing that you and I worked on before.

Shannon: 30:58

Right Was just like unhooking from the spiral and I have fearful avoidant attachment tendencies. So I feel the shifts in the energy. I'm like a squirrel in traffic on the inside and full of anxiety in traffic on the inside and like full of anxiety, but on the outside I'm cool and calm and like fuck this guy. And so I'm really trying, but at least I don't do all the crazy shit that I used to do. Like at least I'm not calling like a hundred times Like I've moved past that. But now like I've moved into like the avoidant piece where it's like match their energy. So like I'm really working through a lot of like no, I don't match their energy. I ask direct questions. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I might match their energy for a little bit and be like hold on, hold on, hold on. We're not doing that anymore.

Ellecia: 31:55

When you catch yourself right. You do it a little bit and then you're like wait a minute, totally, totally Okay.

Shannon: 32:03

So here's, here's what's going on. Here's what I want to know. Right, and I was just talking to a friend- You're going to be okay with that. Right, like what would a securely attached person do? Like getting it like the initials on my wrist? What would a securely, because it is the opposite always of what I'm doing, because it is the opposite always of what I'm doing.

Ellecia: 32:25

Yeah, and so that lends like how would a fucking W W S A D how? Do you, what would securely attached person do?

Shannon: 32:39

Yeah, just like. Yeah, I'd probably forget it was there.

Ellecia: 32:46

I just see it every day.

Shannon: 32:47

I just ignore it. Right, right, yeah. But it's just like speaking up because, like, like, even if I know that and like this is what I did in the last situation that I was in, you know, like nine months ago, was like I know what's happening. You know, when someone starts pulling away, right, like I can, I pretty much know, like, how this is going to end. But if I don't speak up directly and I just kind of like let them breadcrumb me, I am self-abandoning because, like, I want to know what the fuck is happening, have your feelings changed? What's going on here? And if I don't ask that question, then I am doing the old shit that I used to do and I'm not growing.

Shannon: 33:37

So, even though I know I'm probably going to get ghosted, even though I know that this is going to probably go this way, unless this person fully surprises me and comes back with more direct conversation, but I still have to ask that question to signal to myself and to the fucking universe, like, stop doing this to me, stop sending me these people. But the more that I do this, right, like I'm just sending the message to myself that, like I can be direct, I can have hard conversations, I'm ready for anything that comes my way. I can handle this. Yeah, like we're trying to move into this secure. So, like, do I want to stay fearful, avoid it, or do I want to move into, like an earned, secured attachment? Yes, we're doing that one. So we're going to ask the fucking question, even though I know what's probably going to come.

Ellecia: 34:39

I mean, you know it's funny. I feel like we all, especially people socialized as women, like you're not supposed to ask what their feelings are, You're not supposed to ask what is this or what's going on, Because then then you'll be pushing them away or they'll disappear, and I'm like, well, if they can't handle that fucking good lie, if that's not a conversation they want to have let's cut this a little sooner then.

Shannon: 35:03

Don't think that like that also isn't happening in here, of like I should have I shouldn't have said it, because then, like I pushed him away, or but it's like if you can't like Could have maintained that for five more days.

Ellecia: 35:17

You can't like Could have maintained that for five more days Totally.

Shannon: 35:19

This is like a level one of hard. I'm quite complicated, I've got lots of shit right. Like so, if you can't handle my level one, you are just going to not be able to manage my level 10. But yes, we'll eventually come out, yeah, yes. And so like I just have to keep, like anytime it happens, it's like sure. Like I could have self abandoned and we could have prolonged whatever, and then five months in, I could be ghosted or I could be dealing with more feelings compounded, blah, blah, whatever. Like let's fucking get this over with. So like one way that I don't know, this is kind of a kink of mine.

Shannon: 36:10

I feel like it's like how soon can I talk about my feelings to see if they're going to, how like they're going to handle this, yeah, yeah. And so it's like Ooh, I wonder what's going to. I wonder what they're going to do here. Oh, they went away, huh, no. Oh well, that was fun.

Ellecia: 36:28

Yes, they weren't tough enough.

Shannon: 36:30

Yeah, right, cause I've got a lot of feelings. But but also one thing that I've been thinking about, too, is a lot of people want to have the spanky, slappy, choky sex, but they don't want to have the conversations that you have to have in order to have that kind of sex.

Ellecia: 36:54

I don't want to talk about it. That makes it weird, right.

Shannon: 36:58

No, that makes it hot Totally. But also like not just like about like the limits and stuff like that, but like if you can't handle a direct conversation about your feelings, like imagine if I'm in a sub drop or if I'm in this, like freak out, you're not going to be able to hold me through that, or if we go to a club and something happens and I'm activated or whatever, you're clearly not going to be able to manage and hold me. And so that has been my pattern of I self-abandon, I don't speak up, I don't ask for what I want, and so, surprise, surprise, I'm dating, or all of a sudden fucking married to somebody who can't hold me. So I brag that I mean I get this over with within like three to four weeks versus like five years down the road. Yes, so I've set the process up. I'm so proud.

Ellecia: 38:03

That is amazing. That is I want that for everyone. Literally like everyone, whether you're like dating one person or 20 people, like everyone should be able to do that.

Shannon: 38:14

Yeah, yes, it's um, but back to your I mean, that was like a long like back to your question of how's dating going. So I live in Italy, so that like just like compounds all of this, where Polly isn't a big conversation, um, where cheating is like really normalized and, just like you know, swept under the rug, um, yeah, language barrier problems. So you know, there's just like it's difficult, yeah, as.

Ellecia: 38:50

I'm just like also figuring out.

Shannon: 38:52

Yeah, yeah, lots of lots of like, like, lots of like, man woman language barrier, like Italian English language barrier, um, just like different, uh, customs and dating culture and that sort of thing. So, um, yeah, it's been interesting. Have you gotten any? No, go ahead. I was going to say so. Like I've, I still have yet to date multiple people at one time. Uh, huh, yeah, because I get they leave within the first month, right, like, they just like, um, it just like doesn't work out, and so, like I have yet to experience dating multiple people. I did it back in 2013. And when I did it, like everybody knew about each other Like I, they, I would. I was like I'm going out with so-and-so, oh I'm, I live with so-and-so, right, um, so they all knew about each other and I, it was the like, most honest I've ever been in a relationship. I was like this is so good, yeah.

Ellecia: 40:07

Yeah, it feels so good I don't think they might've liked that they were just kind of like going along with it.

Shannon: 40:15

but I was loving it. I was like this is rad.

Ellecia: 40:19

Yeah, yeah, I've had a little bit of both. I feel like I've had a little bit of both and I don't, I don't know. I feel like art, like the monogamous culture is like you should never do anything that makes someone, that makes a partner, someone you're dating, uncomfortable ever at all. Just be whatever they want. It's kind of how what we're taught uncomfortable ever at all. Just be whatever they want. It's kind of how what we're taught yeah, right, and so, um, so to go, this is this is what I want. This is how I'm operating. I'm being open and honest and happy to reassure you but, like, your feelings are yours, um, and I don't I'm not going to like change who I am. To make you feel comfortable is something that like like the conditioning that that is selfish or wrong is something that we have to like actively work together.

Shannon: 41:05

Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, like, why should I? Versus? Like that is how you want to date and how you want to be in a relationship with somebody. This is how I date and how I want to be. We're not compatible. So thank you for the coffee, yep, and I'll see you later, yeah, so also like learning of like, what questions do I need to ask while we're on the app and then during the first date, like, what do I need? Like, and I'm literally going to come with a list because that's just, I'm a Virgo, a neurodivergent Virgo. I love that about you, so we're going to have a whole fucking list.

Ellecia: 41:50

You're like I have a spreadsheet with a tab.

Shannon: 41:56

I mean I do, there's like bullet points with like where I could enter their answer. Can you please speak into the? I just want to do a voice to text. Excuse me, that's amazing. Yeah, no one of the guys I was dating he's like this just feels like an interview and I was like, well, I mean, I am kind of interviewing you, it's an interview, and I was like, well, I mean I am kind of interviewing you.

Ellecia: 42:18

It's an interview for the job of getting between these legs, yeah 100% Because before I'd let any fool off the street like oh you're hired. Pretty sure you're qualified Totally. You're wearing all that red. You're wearing all that red.

Shannon: 42:41

So, yeah. So it'll be interesting when I do have the opportunity to date multiple people and I just don't. Yeah, Polly and E&M.

Ellecia: 42:59

I feel like it's just like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yes, especially on dating apps, especially people who are like, looking for some form of non-monogamy and are not, like, already established as polyamorous. Most of them are like, yes, that sounds awesome right now because I'm horny Totally, but if my heart gets involved and I become emotionally invested in you, then maybe not so much. That's so so, so common. Like I'm into this until I'm not Right, Right.

Shannon: 43:28

I'm like hold on, hold on, hold on, like, we get to like, but we can talk about what this could look like, yeah, right, and then, but we never get to that point.

Ellecia: 43:41

Have you I'm I'm curious, um, using dating apps and stuff and and talking to people and telling them you're non-monogamous and and you know, like the, the where you're at in your journey? Like, have you gotten any like really inappropriate or awkward or weird responses?

Shannon: 44:03

really inappropriate or awkward or weird responses, of course I mean because looking for a unicorn, right, I've considered, like I've talked to couples, like I've considered coming in, but I really vet, I'm like I'll be someone's girlfriend, like, but again, like I'm not looking like if there's no like emotional connection, it's not going to happen. Like I have to, like you, like we need to, so like let's go do things. Let's like what do we have in common, right, and they just I don't drink. I've been sober for almost 11 years, so that also changes the equation. We're not going to go have some wine and like get loosey goosey. There's no loosey anything. I'm like fuck it.

Ellecia: 44:45

Let's go work out and get some endorphins.

Shannon: 44:48

Totally Listen, I'll race you 20 miles on my bike, and then I'll be loose, and then I'll be loose, right, and like I feel like, like their whole thing is like, yeah, let's meet up, have some drinks, and like we'll just like go back home, and it's like no, like let's go on a hike, like let's go do things together and build like some sort of rapport, and then, like this could be an ongoing thing, but that's going to take communication and honesty, and like, what are you looking for? Like, and so none of the couple things have worked out, because it's like, um, I didn't like the dynamic that they had. I don't want to go into somebody's relationship and blow it up, right, so, like I don't want to be the reason, you know. And then, if, if somebody's looking, I was like if somebody is looking for a unicorn, please let the woman run the account, because he will ruin it every fucking time.

Shannon: 46:05

Yeah, and that's exactly what's happened. And I'm like I'm just more interested in your girl, like can you make her the admin of the account? Because, like, I really want to get to know her. I don't. And, of course, like he'll say some shit and I'm like this is dumb never mind, I'm good um, yeah, so like they're you know they're not uh, they're on rocky ground.

Shannon: 46:36

Like they're bringing someone in for like the wrong reasons, or like I don't like the dynamic of like what they're on rocky ground, like they're bringing someone in for like the wrong reasons, or like I don't like the dynamic of like what they're presenting. Um, or yeah, just like I find more out about I mean, it's just like learning about somebody and being like I actually don't like you as a person.

Ellecia: 46:54

So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, god, so often, oh, man, this would have been great if you just would have kept quiet and I could have continued thinking you were who I thought you were.

Shannon: 47:03

Totally, totally, but also thank you.

Ellecia: 47:05

Thank you for insulting me, because we're done here especially who are talking to couples, would listen to their gut on those things and they could avoid some of the drama and pain that is often associated with unicorn hunting.

Shannon: 47:27

I'm sure they're like. This bitch just keeps asking so many questions.

Ellecia: 47:32

Can we just hook up? What does she want? To marry us Totally.

Shannon: 47:35

I'm like, so tell me what you're looking for. Tell me, like, what happens if one of you gets jealous? What happens? Like I want to have all of these conversations and they're like you're only coming over for a night. Why are you asking us all this stuff? So it's just a good reminder of, like I'm actually not coming over for a night, like I'm totally down to be in like a throuple or like in a right, like in a different situation, but I'm not, I'm not, I'm not your unicorn.

Ellecia: 48:04

Well, okay, this is gonna be a random question. What music do you listen to on a before a date?

Shannon: 48:10

Oh, I don't know. I guess it depends.

Ellecia: 48:14

Uh, you don't have, like predate play playlists. No, should I I do? Huh, oh shit Now. Okay, now I'm gonna have to share a predate playlist.

Shannon: 48:27

Yeah, no, like I, um, yeah, I'm trying to think of the dates that I've been on recently and what I was listening to. I don't know, I listened to a lot of electronic music, um, but then I also have like a playlist of like stuff that I listened to when I was like a kid, in like the nineties.

Ellecia: 48:49

Mm, mm, mm.

Shannon: 48:51

Um, I have like a calm and like a meditative one. I don't know and I have. Yeah, I need a Franco, just depends.

Ellecia: 49:00

Depends yeah, there you go. Depends on the mood yeah, yeah, that's amazing. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you want to share?

Shannon: 49:17

Oh, I don't think so Put me on the spot.

Ellecia: 49:22

I can't think of anything. I know I've got another one for you in a minute, so I have to tell people how we know each other. Yeah, Because Shannon has been my business coach. I have been her non-monogamy coach and she has been my business coach and I been her non-monogamy coach and she has been my business coach and, um, and I just I fucking adore you so much. Um, if okay, I have a question for you that doesn't go on the main episode. That is for the supporters of the show at patreoncom slash, not monogamous. Go check it out, because then you'll get to hear all of the extra stuff. But so the question is what is your favorite or best sex tip? Amazing, Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. Uh, this is my favorite part of doing doing this show. Awesome. Um, if people are, uh, maybe looking for, um, a business coach, how can they find you?

Shannon: 50:35

Yeah, so I have my own podcast. It drops on August 26th, so it's called the Anti-Hustle Business Podcast. I am on Instagram at the Shannon Whaley. I have a Facebook group called the Anti-Hustle Business. Wait, what's it called? Anti-hustle Business Coaching with Shannon Whaley. Pretty simple, yeah, all the places. Who am I? What's my group name? Yeah, so you can just find me. You just either through the podcast and then anti-hustlebizcom.

Ellecia: 51:14

You get all the information there.

Shannon: 51:16

I love it, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you, I'm so happy you asked Finally, several years later.

Ellecia: 51:27

That's it for today, folks. I hope this one gives you a little bit of inspiration to explore more deeply or try something new in your non-monogamous journey. If you missed Shannon's sex tip, or just the tip, be sure to head over to patreoncom slash not monogamous to become a supporter of the show. Become one of my friends with benefits. There You're going to get exclusive access to bonus tips behind the scenes content so much more. Thanks for listening. I'll see you next time.

Shannon: 51:54

Bye.