Catapults and Consent: When Kink and Polyamory Overlap with Still

 Are you ready to get an in-depth look into navigating kink and non-monogamy together? This episode is your ultimate guide to understanding the fascinating intersection of kink, polyamory, and non-monogamous relationships. I’m sitting down with Still, a veteran kink community organizer and co-host of Tasty!—South Seattle's monitored monthly kink night at The Lumber Yard Bar. Together, we unpack what it really takes to create safe, trusting, and authentic experiences in these diverse communities.

What You’ll Learn:

• How Kink, Polyamory, and Swinging Communities Overlap: Discover the surprising similarities and shared practices that bring these communities together.
• The Power of Clear Boundaries and Pre-Negotiation: Why setting expectations before play is key to building trust and avoiding misunderstandings.
• Managing Jealousy and Embracing Compersion: Get practical tips on how to navigate the tricky emotions that can arise in non-monogamous dynamics.
• Safety Tips for Newcomers to Kink Events: From vetting events to understanding the role of dungeon monitors, learn how to make your first kink experience a positive one.
• The Role of Dungeon Monitors in Creating Safe Spaces: Explore how community support and safety protocols help protect everyone involved.

About Our Guest: With over a decade of experience in kink organizing and event production, Still brings a wealth of knowledge to the table. As the co-host of South Seattle’s Tasty! Kink Night at The Lumber Yard Bar, they’re passionate about creating inclusive, educational, and safe spaces for exploring alternative relationship styles. If you’re curious about BDSM or interested in broadening your understanding of non-monogamy, this episode is packed with valuable insights and expert advice. Visit the Lumberyard bar in White Center every first Thursday of the month to attend the public monitored kink night event co-hosted by Still.

Listen Now: This episode is for anyone, whether you’re new to the world of alternative relationship structures or a seasoned participant. Tune in for an honest, insightful, and judgment-free discussion that offers fresh perspectives on trust, communication, and self-discovery.

Tune in now and subscribe to "Nope! We're Not Monogamous" so you never miss an episode!

https://elleciapaine.com/call

Chapters

• 0:00 Exploring Non-Monogamous Alternative Relationships
• 8:22 Exploring Kink and Dynamic Relationships
• 21:22 Navigating Polyamorous Boundaries and Jealousy
• 31:17 Establishing Trust and Boundaries in Relationships
• 43:08 Exploring Kink Communities and Events
• 54:52 Navigating Alternative Relationship Dynamics
• 1:00:56 Lumber Yard Networking Event Promotion

Transcript

Ellecia: 0:00

Hey, I'm E, your non-monogamous relationship coach. Welcome to Nope, we're Not Monogamous where we're diving headfirst into the world of BDSM and kink with my incredible friend Still. He's a seasoned kink community organizer and the co-host of South Seattle's Tasty Kink Night. So imagine a place where open communication, trust and safety are at the core of every connection, no matter if it's in the realm of polyamory, swinging or kink. Steele and I are exploring how these relationship dynamics intertwine and why language and shared values are essential in alternative communities, and how consent becomes both an art and a foundation in creating meaningful experiences. So Steele's bringing over a decade of experience and lots of insight, sharing powerful tools for navigating boundaries and how to manage jealousy, while also highlighting the growth and freedom that come from embracing unique relationship styles. So whether you're new to kink, curious about non-monogamy, or you're a seasoned player, this episode is packed full of practical wisdom and fresh perspectives. So get comfortable, maybe even take some notes and join us as we unpack the fascinating intersections of kink, polyamory and non-monogamous dating with still.

Ellecia: 1:20

Oh, I want to give a quick shout out to our newest friends with benefits Charlotte. I adore you. Friend Dawn, you're a doll. Melissa, thank you for the support. These folks are the best and they went to patreoncom slash not monogamous so that they could show us some love, hear me say their names and get the juicy tidbits that I drop in there. So, patreoncom slash not monogamous. You can become a supporter of the show, a friend with benefits or even one of our lovers. Thanks, enjoy. Can you explain what a play partner is?

Still: 2:00

Right. So I would say that a play partner in its best understood term is almost like a comment partner in many ways, in that they are someone who you have an established dynamic with. Usually they're not a pickup partner or a pickup scene partner.

Still: 2:17

They are a play partner that you have a longer-term dynamic with but isn't critical to your long-term life as a person, and they are someone who, okay, you may still grow with them and they may change and they may evolve. It's not my place to say that a play what a play partner is, is defined, but at that moment of in time, in the present, they are someone that you have a relationship with, but you don't have an extended goal in mind where it's like I like to play with you in this way or that way. You're a fantastic pony and I want to do your pony stuff. Uh, sorry, I shouting out a pony person because, uh, that is just I said I would um I love that so much.

Ellecia: 3:04

That's amazing, Wait. So what's a pickup partner then? Or a pickup person, or a pickup what did you say? Play.

Still: 3:11

Pickup play. Pickup play is like okay, I don't know you, you are straight up, I have no idea who you are, but you look cute, and so it's like all right, cool, I would like to do X with you. This is the stuff we would like to do, either then or within a few weeks. Usually oh cool, I'm free here, let's go play, and we do that, and that's just a pickup play, and that's usually a very fast negotiation. You don't have a long-term relationship with that person and you don't have no intent of doing anything after that, because they don't know you and they don't know how you play, and maybe they don't like the stuff you do, or maybe they really do, but you don't, you know it's not, yeah, and so pickup play is kind of the analogous to like the swinger single night, dan kind of thing in a lot of ways yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense, that makes sense.

Ellecia: 4:03

That makes sense, okay, okay yeah.

Still: 4:06

And, like you know, the, the way that queer and kinky people talk about and ritualized sex and relationships, like I think that has value and I think that's a great place for cross-pollinization anyway, improved by having like pregame negotiation and consideration and like check-in procedures and safety protocols and aftercare. Like you know, us hooking up, you should still have a sense of how it's going to go, how the story is going to be told right, like how do you reset and return afterwards, you know, and so like that. For me, that's kind of a important thing to bring to the table.

Ellecia: 4:44

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know I talk a lot about, um, people having like a, like a stars talk or a sexual safety talk and and I there's so much overlap there of like, what are? Our expectations? What are our boundaries? What's a yes, what's a no?

Still: 5:00

Right, like, and also, especially if you are cycling through people, right, Like, oh, I you're dating someone cycling through people, right, like, oh, I you're dating someone else. Right, the second person you're dating they did something that you didn't like and so you're sensitive in that area, like having that ritual of like, how do you begin that thing, rather than expecting them to be okay with whatever you're doing? Like, oh no, no, let's just do a quick check-in before that. It's like, hey, cool, at my last date, uh, he touched my foot, didn't like it, don't want to have my foot touched.

Still: 5:29

Cool now, I know oh yeah, yeah, a lot of this is just like how do you navigate and manage the sensitivities of people and their interests and so like, and that has nothing to do with like how we actually do the act. It's all about how do we manage the dynamic yeah, yeah, how do we, how do we?

Ellecia: 5:52

how do we care for people? Really is kind of what it all boils down to. How do we care for people, regardless of what we're doing with them?

Still: 6:02

right, you know, and that's you know, uh, for me that's kind of like uh, you know the kink umbrella right, like it's this huge wide thing. It can be almost anything, right. It's basically everything that requires you to have informed consent to do, but you can't get arrested for it because it's sex, like that's all of kinky.

Ellecia: 6:25

Okay.

Still: 6:25

And so all of those actions that you're doing, you know kinky sex being the actual sex part, but, like all of those things that you're doing, the care and the way that we think about the dynamic and the way that you manage all of those expectations is the thing that needs to be done, and so, in a relationship sense, how do you?

Still: 6:45

manage? How do you rupture and then retain? And then how do you all of these flows? You kind of have to be conscious of it and you have to have a language for it and you have to be able to craft it in the way that you want to be yourself.

Ellecia: 6:58

Yeah, yeah.

Still: 7:00

Yeah.

Ellecia: 7:00

It's just like creating intentional relationships. There's so much there's so much freaking overlap. It's so funny because, like you know, I, I, I always say, I like where kink and swinging and polyamory, like where they overlap, because so much there's just so many good things there. But it's like it's, like you know, like swingers also have play partners and maybe they're not doing. Bdsm things, but they're like. It's like someone that they hook up with every once in a while.

Still: 7:33

It is a. It is super important to have that and that's like. So one of the places that I really want to shout out is the Center for Sex Positive Culture, because they were kind of a big tent organization when I came down to be like, oh hey, we're going to have a place for all people gay, straight, lesbian, trans, swinging king, all of those people and so I actually did a lot of interesting discoveries at one of their tasting events back at their old interbay location.

Still: 8:03

And so like that was kind of one of the things of like, oh, shoot, that's something that we should bring back as a goal event, and so that's kind of one of the reasons for the last 15 ish months I've been running the event.

Ellecia: 8:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really important because I think I think a lot of people kind of get an. It's like they have this idea of what they might like, but if they don't have an opportunity to try it or even get close to it, then it's just this like fantasy that doesn't have any. It's not based in reality and, like you know, there's so often we think we might like something and then we try it and we're like, oh, actually, no, yeah, we're like, oh, my god, give me more of that right.

Still: 8:44

Does this become my steady diet or is this something that you know? I licked it, don't want to have it. That's the taste thing. I think the line is the customer is always right in the matter of taste. Guess what? You are your own customer and you have to be able to like. You are always right and it's not my place to say you're wrong. I just want you to try.

Ellecia: 9:05

Try stuff yeah, yeah, totally, and, and, and also it you might need to be cooked by a different chef yes, absolutely.

Still: 9:15

Uh, you know, experiences, experience is very useful, uh, especially when you're doing some of the more edgy play. Uh, it's, it's good, like there's. There are safety boundaries, and another part of the things that I do is that I kind of demonstrate this is the safe way to do edgy play. It's good, there are safety boundaries. Another part of the things that I do is that I kind of demonstrate this is the safe way to do this stuff, because I'm doing this in public. It's a free event, it's a volunteer run. What we are doing is not the coolest stuff you've ever seen. It is the safest way to do it when you don't know everything and you can't control for everything. I'm going at a four right out of ten. You know I'm not even trying to go to 11. So like it's not about and it's not about having the greatest event ever. It's about having a good community that a cool event sometimes happens at, and like that's the core goal of the thing that I'm doing yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ellecia: 10:07

Um, what was it you just said about a four or a ten?

Still: 10:14

so imagine a pain scale when you go to a doctor okay like so you know, if I am giving pain or receiving pain, like that's just a quick way of saying, okay, cool. Or a stoplight system like a green and yellow or red, right like I'm, I'm edging in that like yellow zone, that easy peasy. Four, because you know, and also a lot of the times there are two things that I do. It's one I'm a co-host, which means I'm a social butterfly.

Still: 10:41

Everyone gets the same spiel, because then you know, everyone has heard the spiel right, like these are the safety things, these are the things that are going, these are what monitors look like, etc. But then also, some of the times it's like I'm a swing coach, I'm like a club pro. It's like, okay, cool, here's how you do something and it's going to be slow. It will be smooth and then it will be fast, because your goal is to do it safely for yourself, so that you can do it safely on others. I want to learn how to swing a flogger, I want to learn how to touch a whip. All of these very. I'm not reinventing the wheel and I'm not going to be putting you in a Ferrari, I just want you to do it safely, yeah.

Ellecia: 11:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah, amazing, okay, okay, got it, got it. You know, the other day my husband was like rubbing my shoulders because I was sore and he starts digging in and I was like, oh, I need you to go 15% lighter. And he was like, wow, that's. And he did. And he was like that was really specific. And I was like, well, yeah, yeah, like that's how I got what I wanted.

Still: 11:44

Like, well, yeah, like that's how I got what I wanted I was really specific and it's about that dynamic and relationship and that shorthand that you have with your husband, right when it's like you've developed that and you know how to talk to each other and you know how to communicate. Okay, I know my pain scale and I know my toughness of my muscles and so I just need you to like that, but just a little bit less pressure. The psi we bring out to like calipers or whatever and you have an actual word for it but like 15 between you and your husband, perfect right measuring psi yeah yeah, we'll get newtonian in this, let's go.

Still: 12:23

Oh my god, that's amazing. Yeah, yeah, and like that's the. That's the thing is, like that could be. Massage can be kinky, right, like it can be kinky, it can be. I need you to massage me before we do anything else as foreplay.

Ellecia: 12:40

Right, I'll tell you most of my kink would not. Most of my kinks would not be things that people would consider like BDSM, but they're like, they are there, they're sensation play, they're soft touches, tickles, massages, right, they're all kinky, but they're not what people in the world in the larger world would consider to be kinky the world in the larger world would consider to be kinky.

Still: 13:05

And also and also, you can't just go to a massage therapist and say hey, I want you to massage me, but sexy.

Ellecia: 13:12

Right.

Still: 13:13

No, that's illegal. That's illegal. You know, like. So that's the thing is like. You know, yes, for you it's not just that the action is.

Still: 13:26

You know whether or not it's tame, it's also the dynamic you put into it is not a tame dynamic. Yeah, right, like, you have a, it gets your engine going, right, like, and that's why when you think about kink uh, that rhymed, uh, it's like it hinges on this dual idea of action and purpose. Right, like the dynamic where, like, top and bottom can define the active giver and receiver, but dominant and submissive defines the person who's in control of the situation and so you can get your shoes clean of mud for non-kinky reasons, but maybe you're getting cleaned because you're a superior officer, or maybe you're a pretty little pony named butt butt, like. These are all the possibilities that your dynamic, you introduce to the situation, creates the meaning and purpose for inside yourself and inside the relationship.

Ellecia: 14:13

Yeah, okay, can you? Uh, cause I was asked this recently actually the difference um between top and bottom, and dominant and submissive. So, I'm curious if you could give me more on that.

Still: 14:29

Yeah, absolutely so. Top and bottom usually comes from gay culture. It's presumed to be the top would be the person who is penetrating the bottom.

Ellecia: 14:38

Right.

Still: 14:39

But then you kind of grow in the meaning kind of grows from there. And then, for example, if I was the person that was spanking the person, I would be the top of the spanking and the bottom would be the bottom who was being spanked. But again, the reason I'm spanking them is because they're the dominant who is asking to be thanked, then I am a quote-unquote service top, a submissive top to be thanked. Then I am a quote unquote service top, a submissive top Right. And so there's dynamic is actually critical to understand why people like doing this. Because, again, that's the requirement of informed consent, that is the requirement to be glued into, why this is occurring. Yeah, yeah, because it's rude to do that otherwise.

Ellecia: 15:22

So like who is the who is this for? Who's getting the pleasure? I mean it can be both of us getting the pleasure, but like what who, who is, who is this really for?

Still: 15:31

yeah m? R. Do you want to be wearing pony gear or do you want to be wearing military gear, like that is the that is, and it doesn't even have to be physical gear, it can all be mine, it can all be in the mind right and the way you're being treated. If someone is massaging you because get them sport, you're going to kick the winning field goal is a completely separate massage. Then, hey, my queen, I need you to feel these massages before the Persian Empire comes to visit you with gifts, right? Multitude of possibilities. I'm just making stuff up now.

Ellecia: 16:10

I love it. I love it. That's amazing oh.

Still: 16:14

I mean, it's all storytelling. I mean, you know, the magic is the fact that all of these things exist. They're all material reality, right, we're just arranging them in the way that makes us happy. Yeah, yeah, I like that. All material reality.

Ellecia: 16:25

Right, we're just arranging them in the way that makes us happy. Yeah, yeah, I like that. Yeah, I like that a lot yeah, no, no.

Still: 16:31

We're like, uh, everything that does exist has already existed. The novelty is the fact that you are bringing something to the table. You have experience from before, you have desires in the future. What you are doing right now is just assembling reality to what your life should be, and so this is a lot more like uh, mindset stuff.

Ellecia: 16:56

But yeah, yeah, I mean, but that's that, is that right? There is like kind of the big, um kind of purpose, I would think, or or idea behind like, like, are we monogamous or non-monogamous?

Still: 17:11

because that's what's expected of us or because it's what serves us yeah, yeah, like, and again, I'm not faulting anyone who wants to be in a monogamous relationship. That's their happiness. I know monogamous kinky people, not a problem for me, not a problem for them, and so it's just you have to kind of be able to have a safe space to be aware. Do you want to open up? Do you want to experiment? Do you want to see who you are as a person and do you want to do solo polyamory? Do you want to do in a relationship polyamory? Do you want to build into a multi-relationship household? You know, do you want to, uh, buy land and grow a farm? People do that. I, I support them. Um, it's just you have to know who you are so that you can. It's you have to start bottom up and body out, where it's like first the change comes from within and then it grows into what you want to be.

Ellecia: 18:14

Absolutely. That makes me think of a question I'm curious. Um you were talking about, you mentioned kinky, monogamous people, and I'm wondering if monogamous people are going to like kink events. So this comes back to like. The thing I'm always asking is like what actually is monogamy, Like everybody defines?

Ellecia: 18:38

it differently right, because kind of like being non-monogamous and figuring out what people want, if you kind of have to know what the monogamy is for you. Uh, and I'm wondering if people go to kink events that are monogamous, who are like sexually, romantically monogamous with their partner but play in kinky ways with other people, or would that? Would that not be monogamous?

Still: 19:02

oh gosh, well, okay, this is definitely one of those. Like uh web, through dictionary, defines monogamous oh gosh, well, okay, this is definitely one of those. Like Webster's Dictionary defines monogamy as when it's like. You know, for me, I personally think that because it's important for you to play with other people, it is important for you to consider them as other people, which means that it's a relationship, them as other people, which means that it's a relationship.

Still: 19:29

I can conceive of someone who doesn't care about the person that they're playing with and therefore they never personally consider it to be reaching the sphere of monogamy. And, of course, some people define it for very specific legal terms health terms, relationship terms. That is monogamy to me, and so I'm definitely not an expert on this. I would say that monogamy is most likely inherited, in the same way that someone's religion is and the way that someone's gender can be their gender expression. And then you kind of like turn around and all of a sudden there are people wearing rockabilly outfits and it's like, well, that's gender expression and I recognize it. But so it's kind of the same thing when you go to a kinky group, it's like, oh, that's a monogamous couple and it's like I recognize that you're doing monogamy, but, boy, that's a different way to do monogamy than I would normally be OK with.

Ellecia: 20:21

Right, right, yeah, that's great. That's a really good way to describe that.

Still: 20:28

Oh yeah, no, I use the rockabilly gender expression in other contexts, so yeah.

Ellecia: 20:33

Uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah, yeah, that's amazing, that's amazing.

Still: 20:37

That pinup hair. That sure is a lot of gender in a very like sticky amount of mess. That hair took a lot of time. You really care and I could.

Ellecia: 20:48

I could respect that yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely amazing, amazing. Um. I lost my list I found my list we can come back to stuff yeah, yeah, totally yeah, totally, so, okay, so, um, one of the one of the things I was really excited to talk to you about was how people this actually segues to it really well was how people um navigate. Having multiple partners at a um, at a an event, like a kink event, some sort of play party Um, how, how do people negotiate that?

Still: 21:37

So some of that is jealousy right, Like how do you negotiate the jealousy part?

Still: 21:42

Uh and and you know I'll I'll touch back on that. I think that's a something that deserves its own time, but some of that is scheduling. Google Calendar is lovely. I want to go to this event and I want to give my time and devotion to the person that I want to go to that event to, and so some of that is the negotiation of I love you. You're wonderful.

Still: 22:06

I think some of the more hippie people in my life would say that that person is my jupiter tonight. Um, like they are the biggest thing in the biggest mass. They're the sense of gravity to them. Um, and so, like you, kind of just you have to pre-negotiate and understand the culture that you're walking into of like, oh, okay, cool.

Still: 22:26

So at this party, I'm going to be doing things that are edgy. They are physically demanding. I'm going to be wearing, I'm going to be, a walking gift tray for people to eat off of right, like I'm going. And so, therefore, the person I came with, who is the cook adding, you know, sushi onto my body body, like they're going to be the person I care the most about, and so the fact that I do have a play partner or a long-term relationship with you has to be negotiated down for this moment, just because, on whatever the escalator or elevator element that you have, it's like it has to transfer just for this time, so that I can give the right amount of, you know, passion and pleasure to the moment that I'm in.

Ellecia: 23:11

Yeah.

Still: 23:13

Yeah.

Ellecia: 23:13

So it's like creating a container yeah.

Still: 23:18

And you can't. And also, it's really important to be aware before you walk into the room what the container is. It's really important to do that. Trying to, in the midst of a scene, renegotiate, uh, is some of the messiest things I have ever seen. Um, yeah, it's kind of like sticking your fingers into acid and hoping that it changes. Um, just doesn't work, weirdly um yeah.

Still: 23:44

So you kind of have to, hey, you know. You know, I really wish you know we had a different situation. Maybe I need to remove myself and we will come back, or hey, I think they were physically not doing good things to you and so I need to check in and like all of that right. Like there are a thousand thousand possibilities I could invent them out of whole cloth right now, and it's really important to be pre-aware of what's going to happen and what you want to have, so that your response to it isn't uncontained sure, sure, yeah, yeah.

Ellecia: 24:22

So again, that's very similar to uh advice given to swingers like pre-negotiate what your agreements are and what you're comfortable with before you show up to an event and don't try changing your agreements in the middle of it, when everybody's horny and not in the right minds.

Still: 24:41

Yeah, no, and you know and some of these events are you know whether or not there is alcohol allowed at your event. You know that is a that is a boundary that people have to talk about and have to be aware of, because if someone decided they're going to a you know a place where people can drink, that is something that you have to be just pre aware of the mindset that people will have in the midst of it of the mindset that people will have in the midst of it.

Still: 25:10

Yeah, and like are you okay with me hooking up with?

Ellecia: 25:13

someone who has been drinking.

Still: 25:14

Right, Like yeah.

Ellecia: 25:16

Yeah.

Still: 25:17

It adds another layer. Oh, there's thousands of layers. The onion goes on forever. Yeah, but I wanted to return back to the idea of jealousy, right, which is kind of the core element of a lot of the oh shoot. This upset me right. Um, for in a kinked contact, this is how this is an analogy that I use is uh, so if my partner wants to hire a birthday clown for their birthday, okay, their birthday party needs a birthday clown, they want to have a birthday clown for their birthday.

Ellecia: 25:46

Okay.

Still: 25:46

Their birthday party needs a birthday clown. They want to have a birthday clown at their birthday. That's the analogy I would like to use, for I want to play with someone that you do not know, or you do know, but they do something that you don't, right.

Ellecia: 26:01

Okay.

Still: 26:02

You did not want to be the birthday clown. That is not who you are. That is not what you want to do. You're not a bad person just because you weren't the birthday clown. And they don't think less of you because you didn't decide to be the birthday clown, like that is the thing. So for you, if, okay, cool, I didn't want to put on the big red nose and the bozo the clown wig, not the thing that I'm into, I, whether or not I find it hot to know about it, whether I find it hot to watch it, whether or not I find it hot to uh, be helping put the bozo clown wig on. You know, like I don't. Again, multitude of possibilities. Yeah, it's still at the core of it. You're not a bad person because you're not the one wearing the wig. At the end of the day, Right.

Still: 26:58

Right, so it doesn't make you less valuable. Yeah, like cause that birthday party was one night.

Ellecia: 27:05

Yeah.

Still: 27:06

You only have a birthday once, Right? So, like you should allow yourself to know that that act and that act of doing something isn't a betrayal of the understanding that you have with the person that you're going to be sharing the birthday party with.

Ellecia: 27:27

Right, this is a brilliant analogy, like it's kind of blowing my mind actually. Yeah, this is a brilliant analogy, like it's kind of blowing my mind actually. Yeah, this is brilliant because it really. I mean, god, I can't tell you the number of times, like the amount of people that I work with on this idea that, like, if I'm not the one giving my partner something that they desire, am I lacking? Now, I'm comparing, right, is there something wrong with me or should I feel bad? Am I inadequate? There's so many things that go into that.

Still: 28:03

If I lack compersion, am I bad at polyamory?

Ellecia: 28:07

Oh my Lord.

Still: 28:09

Yeah, Let me tell you.

Ellecia: 28:10

I have spent years on that one. I am not a very compulsive person.

Still: 28:17

And that's okay, that is fine, you can manage that. And also it doesn't make you a bad person. You know, in the same way that, like, oh shoot, I am allergic to, you know, both of the clown makeup, like I just physically can't do it. It is not because I personally don't want to, it's that I physically can't. That is a the same way. For some people it's like I physically can't be, you know, turned into a chandelier and you want to turn someone into a chandelier, right? Suspension it's a big fad in the local scene. Or was um back when the center had, you know, suspension hangings at like every 10 feet?

Still: 29:00

um, you know, like, looking like the plants in the background there, um, just like someone hung on yeah macrame, just like macrame everywhere, like you'd walk into the room and it would just be like everyone, like everyone in this rope, this bench rope. You know event was being suspended because it's cool, it looks cool, but there are some people who physically can't did any of them have light bulbs lit up on them like an actual chandelier?

Still: 29:27

uh. So not only have I seen that, oh no, no, half the reason to do this stuff is to see cool thing. Um yeah, I have also seen someone who got suspended by chain hook then run up and down the walls like they're Tony Hawk skateboarding. That was in a local bar that shall not be named right now.

Still: 29:54

There are a lot of cool things that exist in the world, and I support everyone prying stuff out. That's the goal. If you have a 9-5, you have 8 hours of work, you have 8 hours of sleep and you have eight hours to figure out what you want to do with your life. And you know uh, or you should be arguing that you should have eight hours to figure that out and you know what you're gonna do?

Ellecia: 30:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly what. Uh, what? What advice would you give people who want to like, support or show appreciation for the things like, like their partners, kinks, the things that they're into, even if they aren't into it themselves?

Still: 30:41

understanding, uh, learning, uh like having a language to know what they're, they are into. In the same way that, like, there are a lot of partners who are into football because their partner is into football, you know, knowing what a quarterback is like. Let's, let's, just you know, let's go down this road. The metaphor of your partner's kink is football, right, okay.

Ellecia: 31:01

Yeah, I don't think that's very far off.

Still: 31:04

Yeah, no, no, no, no, I mean, they're dressing up for sure. That's a fetish. I tell you, I am the quarterback, I am, I'm watching the game to be the quarterback. There's a whole discussion about that that we will just let the people who don't want to have it not have it anyway. So let's pretend, for the sake of argument, that we are considering football as kink, right, american football.

Still: 31:31

Okay, you learn how to talk to your partner about oh, this is football. You know just a little bit about it. You don't call it sports ball. You're respectful of it. You're respectful of their time. You're respectful of that. They care. You're respectful of that. They care and you respect who they are at them and you check in with them.

Still: 32:09

You set your boundaries, and set the boundaries you have in your relationship about. Like, I don't want you to fly to the Super Bowl with your friends. I don't want you to bend, I don't want you to gamble on the game. I don't want you to be destructive in if your team loses, you throw something through the wall, right, like you want to set relationship boundaries in that sense. Right, so that you know that you're safe as a person, but then, yes, sometimes you are going to be a football widow.

Still: 32:22

You know in many ways and this is me being funny at the point, but still like, okay, cool, they want to go to an away game, right, right, they want to fly to kansas city, go to the away game, do all the cool stuff, and then they fly back and you have that relationship. You've had those check-ins and you say how was the event? What do you want to tell me about it? I know just enough to know where I don't want to know about it because I can think that I'm interested. And then all of a sudden, he starts talking about the three, four defense and I want to get out.

Ellecia: 32:53

My eyes glaze over.

Still: 32:55

Yeah, no, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, straight up, Like, but for that? So for a person who, in a swinging context or in a polyamorous relationship context, like a closed door policy, right, like I don't want to hear about the relationship, or I do want to hear about the relationship, or I want to go to the game and I want to walk, and I want to walk with you and I want to go to the barbecue afterwards and talk about the game, the tailgating you know, I want to do the tailgating and have all the really cool tasty food. Or I just want to say have a great time, honey, you go do your thing. Yeah, like that is a. It's not on me to tell you how to feel. It's about me giving you the options of how to figure it out.

Ellecia: 33:42

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, that's, that's brilliant. You're good with analogies.

Still: 33:50

Yes, what is a man but a miserable pile of secrets? And the secrets are all mysteries and analogies.

Ellecia: 33:57

Amazing.

Still: 34:03

I mean, I've made you laugh before at my jokes. Let's be honest. Yes, you have.

Ellecia: 34:10

Once or twice.

Still: 34:12

Once or twice. Once or twice, I might be funny. What can I?

Ellecia: 34:17

say Amazing. I'm curious about, about I. I have like eight questions.

Still: 34:32

Let's go.

Ellecia: 34:34

Um, um, okay, from supporting someone who doesn't have the same kinks as you, uh, to what? What about, like different levels of experience? Say like people get into a relationship and they're like I might be into that. I'm not sure how does that work?

Still: 35:00

so, uh, one of the things I do want to shout out is this is the language that we've developed over the last couple of years is that sometimes you will be an older person who is in a submissive role and the person who is popping you is younger than you.

Ellecia: 35:14

Yeah.

Still: 35:15

And so, emotionally, there is always this situation of like. Well, I want you to do this to me and I want to teach you how to be dominant to me, right? Okay and so it's the language of being a patron of the top so rather than a mentor, like a mentor being usually a top who is teaching another top, but a patron who is a submissive teaching the top how to do these things. Um, and doesn't have to be age. It can be like experience, right, but usually age comes with experience. Let's be honest um and so you know.

Still: 35:48

But if I am a fresh faith 21 year old who wants to spank butts, I go out and I'm open to new experiences and a you know 32 year old woman comes up to me and says oh shoot, I want you to bang my butt. You don't really know what you're doing. How about I patron you so that you figure this?

Ellecia: 36:11

out. That is one I had not ever come across, so thank you for that.

Still: 36:16

It's fresh. It's fresh. This is a new hotness. Um, it's all the kids are talking about it right, all the kids being me and my friends, but we're figuring it out yeah, it's like um skibbity something or other yeah, skibbity toilet, oh my god, yeah, yeah, I'm surrounded by younger people.

Ellecia: 36:33

Um, I have to figure it out real quick uh-huh, uh, okay, so so then that the the the bottom being a patron to the top and kind of teaching them what to do.

Still: 36:50

Right.

Ellecia: 36:50

And is that a power dynamic?

Still: 36:56

Largely just an education dynamic Like a lot, a lot of this is like it's not that I'm better than you, it's that I just know five moves ahead of where you are right now uh-huh like, or sometimes it's like you want to do something that is pretty, you know, out there and we need to get you up there.

Still: 37:16

you know, we need to get you up to doing the things that you actually want to do. Um, like, this is what it is, this is what it isn isn't. And you know, some of that is like okay, so I'm developing, and a lot of it is just be a friendly person, because how do I say this, how do I say this? Um, being new is not a bad thing. Right, it's. You know, and it is just as intimidating to meet someone new when you are established in the scene as when you were fresh. Sure, so, just being a friend, having a friendly attitude and being open and learning, because it's me being open to learning from you if you are new to the scene as you being open and friendly, learning from me. Who is like hosting an event? Open and friendly learning from me. Who is like hosting an event? Right, like that is, it only works because it's a smooth. You know it's tessellated tiles on a on a board. Right, like, it only works because of the straight line.

Ellecia: 38:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, okay, okay. Um, how? How do you have any? Are there any like specific, like tools or practices that people use to establish, like like trust and safety, and negotiating how how that would work?

Still: 38:38

uh. So I would say that it's kind of uh, it's like loading a catapult um okay yeah, no, no, no, it's an analogy.

Still: 38:49

It helps people connect the thing, because it's all physics, right? Um, you have to, kind of, you start you first. You figure out okay, this is the initial condition, right, this is where we're starting. Okay, this is your physical health, this is your initial condition, right, this is where we're starting. Okay, this is your physical health, this is your physical requirements and all of that, right, it's like okay, and then you kind of build up the tension, you build up the momentum, you build up the dynamic that you want to have and you kind of have that moment of transfer where it kind of begins right, where, oh, I put the blindfold on you.

Still: 39:16

That's when the scene begins, right on you. That's when the scene begins right. And then, okay, cool, the, the scene is now beginning. You're up in the air, everything's fine, it's flying, you know, nothing bad could ever happen. And then eventually, the rock hits the ground and it's like, okay, cool, you have to come back to earth. Okay, how do we re-establish who we are as the relationship we have? Are you okay? Do you need aftercare? Do you need water? Do you need a hug? Yeah, some people don't love them, you know, I can throw you against the wall and you'll be fine in two minutes. That's fine. But you know how do we figure that out and bring that forward?

Ellecia: 39:59

Yeah.

Still: 40:01

Yeah, yeah. And so, like the tool, sense of it, like the, the, arming your audience with the language they need, it's, it's a lot of it, is culture. A lot of it is knowing how to walk into a room. What is a dungeon monitor? How do you ask for time on a piece of furniture? How do you, uh, negotiate with someone that you've just met? These are the things I want to have. These are my reds. These are the things that I don't want. These are the things that I do want. You know how do you begin that? And then what do you expect will happen in the scene? And how do you ask for aftercare when you might've been on a cross for an hour and you have no language whatsoever after that?

Ellecia: 40:42

Yeah.

Still: 40:43

How do you then? How do you then be taken care of?

Ellecia: 40:48

Yeah.

Still: 40:50

And then what do you do after that? Okay, cool, I've spent half an hour in this two day event being cuddled. Great Love that. And now I'm going to go back into the world and I'm going to do other stuff. Yeah, what does that look like for you? Are you okay with that? Are you okay with me doing this exact same thing, but with someone else? Are I like to have these conversations? Like 90 of what I do is like hey, have you thought about kink? Hey, are you okay with all the possibilities? Have you thought of this? Have you thought of that? Like that is, you know, you have to introduce these things to people. Do you know what you're getting into? Because, like I'm, I'm, I'm the front porch for the fetish sort, like it's a very you know, I don't know who's coming in and I have to make sure that they know, if they go further into the house, what the heck they're getting into yeah, yeah, what, uh?

Ellecia: 41:58

What is a dungeon monitor?

Still: 42:01

So a dungeon monitor is it's slang at this stage, because not everywhere is a dungeon, but a dungeon monitor is someone who is either a volunteer or a paid staff member, who is the person who is the authority for safety, the lifeguard, if you will, yeah, of the situation. Uh, they either are directly monitoring a single scene, or they're monitoring, monitoring a couple of scenes, or just like, party in general. They're the person to talk to if, oh shit, something fell, someone hurt, there's a fire, all these possibilities. They're the person who is in loco parentis. They are the person you want to talk to because they're the closest sense of authority there is at the time. Yeah, and so like, go to them, talk to them. They at least know who to talk to. Not every dungeon monitor has the absolute authority to do everything. Sure, they're not your boss, but they are the person who is the hub of information for things going up and down the chain.

Ellecia: 43:04

Okay, okay, that makes sense. That makes sense. How, how, um, somebody is interested in um, getting into kink, going to events or parties or something. How does someone know if they're like? How would they one find it? But to make sure that it's a safe place or a safe event, great question.

Still: 43:29

Oh gosh, that is that's why I run an event, um cause, I try to demonstrate that uh one knowing people core, core element, knowing how to go there is knowing someone who is there. Going to FetLife is still the closest thing to a Facebook that the kink community has. It's not great. There's a lot of dick pics. Fetlifecom F-E-T-L-I-F-E dot com. It is a website for kinky people to create a profile and then let things happen to that profile. You can use that to organize events. You can use that to figure out what stuff is happening in your local area. You can figure out who to talk to or someone will give you a FetLife profile afterwards.

Still: 44:17

There are various WhatsApp groups and there are leather clubs up and down the coast and throughout the world, including ones that are dedicated to different life experiences, such as trans inclusive leather, african-american leather all of those places where you can go to. Oh, I want to do bdsm in a specific way, you know, to learn the way that leather work, which is, you know, wearing the uh 70s heavy metal, black vest, leather vests and the like, motorcycle boots and all that or just like, because that's kind of where it where it all started. In a lot of ways modern american bdsm comes from. You know, gay men in the post-world war ii era, kind of bringing back that camaraderie they had and then bringing that forward and creating from that both motorcycle gangs and also gay leather culture, and that influenced pick one or the other, one or the other, you know, pick one or the other.

Still: 45:18

and then, of course, because of its popularity, it then came into heavy metal, because some of the lead singers of heavy metal bands were gay and so, oh yeah, that's why Queen looked like that, and so a lot of the popular culture is. And also then it's like it was rogue and weird and so people would bring it in fashion and like, oh, they're wearing a lot of leather for fashion purposes, or I'm going to be spooky because I'm wearing leather gear and so therefore, I'm going to be a professional wrestler in leather gear. To make you dislike me there's a lot of history there.

Still: 46:01

Oh, a font, a font of history. Everything has a source, Everything will come from something. So like that's how linear time work and so right. For us it's really it's important to know what you're doing and the symbols you're doing, so that you know the culture that it's a part of, so that you know how to then express yourself truly and earnestly as who you are. So it's like, ok, cool If you're doing most gay things are that, or things that were gay. Right that we call BDSM.

Still: 46:38

now, right that we call BDSM now it's good to know the history that it came from and know that they have resources. Like how do you as a non monogamous person right, you want to go from the new relationship, energy, to a longer term relationship. Well, gay people have been doing that since before. The Supreme Court said you can get married, right? How do you make a business LLC so that both partners have an equal ownership of the house? How do you arrange for a funeral? How do you have multiple partnership in the same house, like? Gay culture has been doing it for a couple more decades and under even more scrutiny than the current non-monogamous people that we know? Yeah, and so that is elder. Information and resources is available if you're interested absolutely, absolutely, yeah.

Ellecia: 47:33

Yeah, they've been paving the way, oh yeah in many ways in many ways, in many ways in many ways really.

Still: 47:41

Yeah, um, yeah, uh, because uh pretty sure one of the village people was a construction worker.

Ellecia: 47:47

So yeah, literally paving the way um, I could probably ask you like a million other questions, but I let me ask you this what? Because I think this is important. Um, what are some like red flags people should look out for if they're?

Still: 48:06

new to attending events or going joining a new uh community so 10 years ago, about a decade ago, um, one of the things that was notorious in the scene was what we would call yanks. These were usually men, aggro chauvinist top, who would literally yank on your collar to indicate that they were into you. So again, bottom up, body out. Someone who doesn't respect your physical body is a caution. Even if they try to excuse it and you try to excuse them for doing it, that's a usually a red flag on the play. Um, and of course, of course, there are places where that's okay and part of the culture. Right, if I go to a bathhouse, it is expected for cruising to occur, but that's part of the warning label on the door. Right a bathhouse it is expected for cruising to occur, but that's part of the warning label on the door right. Usually, a red flag is I don't respect your bodily autonomy, I want to be able to grab you.

Still: 49:15

First step. Second one is someone who doesn't know anybody. Step Second one is someone who doesn't know anybody. It is really easy for someone to go kind of like those fish that grew up in the abyssal, dark and they just mutate in weird ways. Someone who has never checked in and never got called on their shit. They will be having the weirdest things and doing the weirdest thing. Uh, being open about what you do and how you do it is the fastest way to make sure you're doing it in a safe way, because you will not be able to see, you don't know what the elephant is, right, you don't know the wholeness of what you're doing until you have a third, fourth, fifth pair of eyes on it right, so yeah, so being involved with people who are involved with other people is a lot safer until you have a third, fourth, fifth pair of eyes on it, right, so yeah, so being involved with people who are involved with other people is a lot safer.

Still: 50:07

Don't go into the the hotel. Horror shows is a genre of funny stories. They're funny because we survived. Don't do it.

Ellecia: 50:18

Hotel horror shows.

Still: 50:20

Hotel horror shows. Hotel horror shows. Yeah, utah, someone was getting tied up in one of the doors and the door broke, and so they fell on their elbows because of that and they broke their elbows. So, yeah, don't, don't get tied onto a door, is the thing to learn there. Cabinet door even it was so stupid. A cabinet door, not even like the bathroom door, like one of the cabinets that, like, is holding your suit before you go to your convention appearance oh yeah it was the.

Still: 50:53

It was the silliest, stupidest thing. I uh person who shall not be named. Uh was fantastic person, and that was one of those stories that we would tell each other.

Ellecia: 51:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, um, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you want to share? Hmm?

Still: 51:14

I can go through a thing. Uh for, uh, hey, a shout out again to the lumberumberyard Bar and White Center. They are the host of my kink night. They have been a fantastic partnership to have I run a kink night every first Thursday. First, Thursday.

Still: 51:33

First Thursday of every month. It is tasty. It is a free, public, monitored kink night that I help run. I am a co-host I am not the sole proprietor, of course, um, and I have a group of volunteers who help help it run. Um, but going to there is a fantastic place. If you want to begin a journey again, it's the front porch. It's not going to be amazing, it's going to be a good introduction. Yeah, um, yeah, so that is first thing to do. Uh, not every person who is masculine presenting is a dominant or top. Um, that is a thing to uh understand. Uh, and also, you should not only have men or tops as your event leadership. That is a thing that you should probably think about. A red flag is if everyone who is running the event is exactly clones of each other. Have questions?

Ellecia: 52:32

Uh-huh, uh-huh.

Still: 52:33

Yeah, why does it seem that they came out of the factory? You know that seems more culty than I like it.

Ellecia: 52:39

Right, right, really in any community, in any community.

Still: 52:44

Yeah, if, like, uniforms are great and all but like, I'd like to see just a like a quintilla of diversity of thought there. Just you know, a like you guys talk to each other right, like it's not just one voice coming out of the same mouth.

Ellecia: 52:58

Um, the borg the board.

Still: 53:00

Yes, exactly yes. Don't go to the borgi, it's a bad idea yeah um, yeah, and so that's also.

Still: 53:11

Like you know, I also really like the diversity of like, hey, polyamory, swinging and kink. It could be an exchange of ideas and different ways to think about things, because you become better people by doing that. So, yeah, this is. I think that this kind of cross pollination is super useful. Yeah, yeah, I had a little list here, so I'm just looking at it. Yeah, I would say that for me, how do you manage the this is more a question for you when someone is coming in and asking you about, okay, we want to open our relationship, that initial moment, I don't see those people at that stage. I see people who have already decided to leave the house. I don't know that this is a question for you actually. Actually, when you see people who have that moment of like, I want to do this stuff, but I don't know how to leave the shell, as it were. So for them, what do you think it is that they need to know to feel safe to go? Do that?

Ellecia: 54:27

Oh God, that's a really good question.

Still: 54:30

Oh.

Ellecia: 54:31

God. That's a really good question, why they need to know why. Why is this a thing, why is this a desire? Have some clarity there, right. You're thinking of specific people. Well, I mean really that's all people, but I am. I have a couple comes to mind for me who literally opened up because, like one of them was like like got the nerve up to finally tell their partner after 20 years that they were very kinky and really had these desires that were so far outside of what they had been doing for their 20 year relationship.

Ellecia: 55:12

Right. And then the other partner, you know, so that the partner who came out was feeling all this guilt and all this like.

Still: 55:17

Oh my.

Ellecia: 55:17

God, what is wrong with me? And their other partner was like well, I really love you. None of these things ever crossed my mind. I don't think I'm into them, but like, let's figure out how you can go get those experiences. And like, because I love you, I care about you, Right, and so they they really had to, so they had to like figure out one. They had to work through some of that like.

Ellecia: 55:35

This is what our relationship has been all this time, and now we're changing it a bit, you know, and then figure out like, is it worth it, Like what is? The why what's the, what is the? The drive there, um, and really what they for they were like it came down to like uh, the, the, the non-kinky partner, the more vanilla partner was like I love you for who you are, and I want you to have authenticity in your life, and that is really important to me.

Ellecia: 56:02

Um, and so then, working through all of that and then, little baby steps, creeping out the door and going let's, let's try some things and see what happens and come back together and see how we feel.

Still: 56:16

Yeah, yeah oh yeah, definitely, the cycle going in and out is definitely like super critical, super critical, like yeah uh, I, I am not running a home. I do not know. A deck is not a domicile. You know like, uh, it's just a front court, I'm I, I can't pay your taxes you might have a rocking chair you might have a rocking chair. It's just a front port.

Ellecia: 56:33

I can't pay your taxes. For you, you might have a rocking chair.

Still: 56:35

You might have a rocking chair. It'll be a great time. Yeah, it'll be a fantastic time for as long as the lemonade is cool. But you know, eventually, either it's too hot for the lemonade or you know it's closing time.

Ellecia: 56:45

And the mosquitoes start coming out.

Still: 56:47

Exactly. You have to then reconnect back to the real world and say this is what, that's what that was for me, this is what this is for me. Where am I now? What have I done? What have I changed all of that? Um, so, yeah, definitely. I think that anyone who is thinking about coming out is thinking about trying new stuff, whether it is kinky or polyamory or swinging, what have you which? Swinging is just kinky sex, without a lot of the like hangups about it. Um, like you know it, uh, there's no dominance and submissive in swinging.

Ellecia: 57:22

Really, as I understand it.

Still: 57:24

Um, so, like it's just, you know, without those hangups, but it's still kinky sex though, like you know. Yeah, you're doing, you're doing some stuff here.

Ellecia: 57:39

Let's be honest, let's be real. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true, it's really very funny because, uh, you know, when I was, I was married monogamously for 13 years, did like the no very normal thing and then I got divorced. I was like I don't want to be monogamous. And then rob and I started like hanging out with swingers, going to swingers clubs, and people would talk about vanilla people and but I also had always been kinky and I was like vanilla, I mean so, like, so, like the swingers were calling people vanilla who were monogamous, and then the kinky people were calling people vanilla who were not having kinky sex, who were most of the swingers.

Ellecia: 58:14

I was like it's really fun how the language shifts across the, across the board, right, like a unicorn in polyamory. That is like this unethical situation where someone isn't treated well. A unicorn in swinging is like hell, yeah, we're having a threesome. And then a unicorn in in kink might be someone in a pony.

Still: 58:33

Play you are 100% right. You are 100% right. Yeah, it's a genre of pony play when there are entire. What kind of flag you are holding will say I want to be a third in an established relationship that exists. It's out there, you can find it yourself.

Still: 58:54

like what color of bandana you are wearing will tell people what's going on um yes, so like, for for me it's like a lot of this is just, uh, again kind of the abyssal mutations, right, like if we all came together and figured out our language together, we would have a lot easier way to get people, because there are very few people who are 100 swinging, 100 kinky, you know, 10 non-monogamous but 90 monogamous, like it's all a spectrum, it's all figuring it out and so like if we all kind of came together and got that language and interchange together, it would be just a lot easier for people to self-express because they don't have that confusion. Yeah.

Ellecia: 59:41

Yeah, which means we have to keep talking about things because, uh, you know, how else will people know, how else will we have shared language, if we're all hiding, if we're all hiding away on the back porch or in the closet or in the bedroom, whatever right. Like we're all hiding away and not talking and having community. Then we won't have a shared language.

Still: 1:00:03

Yeah, yeah, and that's uh, that's, that's the really important thing, because, also, one of the things is like, if I've seen you and I've seen you be cool, that means that if I see you at an event, I know at least everything behind you isn't on fire, like you know I because, again, if you know people, that means that if you go to a place and they're still there, it's a good place. If they leave, that's a sign for you to leave. Leave like that's knowing people who, if they leave, you leave, is really good. Um, because you have, you know their ethics and their standards and if they're willing to go further than you would be willing to go, you know that. And then you know the people who aren't willing to go as far as you're willing to go and they leave because they don't want to see someone do X, y, z. Then you know, based on what you know about them, what the temperature of the room is. Yeah, yeah.

Ellecia: 1:00:58

Yeah, yeah, amazing. Thank you so much for coming on. This is so good, no problem.

Still: 1:01:06

Yeah, no, it's a great time. I pitched this to you when I saw you and I was like, okay, cool, let's, let's do this. It sounds like a great time. Um, and again, uh, first Thursday of every month, lumber yard bar, uh, in white center. Um, that's the event I cohost, Uh, so you could have this, uh.